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[Featured Discussion] Support Role Suggestion

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CupcakeTrap

Recruiter

11-01-2012

Quote:
Ninja Boss91:
Yeah but think of it this way... If a carry outfarms the other carry than they might start to snowball because of the extra gold.(Depending how outfarmed they actually are) But now you not only have to deal with the adc being a little stronger than yours but also their support. I just think it would cause snowballing easier.

This is one of the common concerns addressed in the larger Synergy thread. I'll summarize my response here.

Yes, Synergy would make the success or failure of bot lane even more critical to the outcome of the game. However, I think this is appropriate: you have 4/10 ... 40% ... of the game's players fighting in this lane. I think it SHOULD matter more than the other lanes.

Also, it's fair that the Support would share in the carry's farming success, because the Support is contributing to it with smart play.


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crimethinc187

Senior Member

11-01-2012

bump


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Talisid

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Blaine Tog:
So, same question as before: how would you go about fixing this?


Take Taric, add AP ratios to his armor buff, add an AP ratio to the stat buffs his R provides.

Take Sona. add AP ratios to her armor/mr buff. Add AP ratio to her green powercord debuff. Add AP ratios to her Q and W auras.

Take Soraka. Add AP ratios to her passive and armor buff.

Add an AP ratio to the AD buff on Janna's shield.

Basically, make it so that their UTILITY can scale with AP, not just buff their current ratios so they do more damage, that just waters down the differences between supports an AP carries.

Once you've done all that, and rebalanced it all, then you can add a legit 5th gold stream without marginalizing supports.


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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
NA1:
Band-aid solution: Allow support champs to get some farm via a Synergy system, and then adjust support champs so they scale with gold better.
They tried making supports scale with gold better. It's overpowered. That's why they've been nerfed so much. Abilities that scale without gold have to have a high base power, so if the numbers scale well with gold you end up with a champion that ends up with more power than a champion that sucks without gold (i.e. most carries).

Support mid is already difficult for most mid-laners to deal with. Give supports the ability to scale their damage up decently and that becomes the new meta. Now AP carries are either used as supports (which you're already seeing) or not at all, outside of specific teamcomps.

Quote:
NA1:
Better solution: complete rework of items so champs (particularly ADCs) don't scale exponentially with items. Or at least not so radically. Then adjustment of all champs based on this new, more linear growth of power. Particularly adjustment of all supports so they scale along that same linear growth path as other champs, to some extent.
Nerf ADC damage and you turn the game into League of Tanks. Without ADCs, cracking major defenses becomes either outright impossible or at least inefficient for squishy champs. A 6-item Darius can destroy a 6-item Annie any day of the week if left alone, but a 6-item Vayne will practically three-shot him. That's why not everyone plays tanks and bruisers: because eventually, their low damage-to-tankiness ratio doesn't work in their favor anymore.

Quote:
NA1:
The better solution would require a complete revamp of the game's balance, so I seriously doubt Riot would be willing to do that.
You're speaking in vagueries but I asked for specifics. If there's a perfect, obvious solution to the problem, state it. If the problem is complex and the answer uncertain, then perhaps it will make sense why Riot hasn't fixed it already.


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trierrit

Member

11-01-2012

bump


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bebopinjane

Senior Member

11-01-2012

easy. Give each team the ability to have one player select the "support" role (if they choose to have one) and that player receives synergy (this effect does not apply to characters whose sole role is "carry&quot

hey


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ElementzPRO

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Wow morello is so bad at this game

An Annie with 40% farm vs a Sona with 40% farm I would choose Sona every day.

Annie with 40% farm isn't gonna be doing anything. Annie is useful when she can burst someone. 40% farm annie isn't gonna burst anything. Sona would still be able to stun everything regardless.


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CupcakeTrap

Recruiter

11-01-2012

Quote:
bebopinjane:
easy. Give each team the ability to have one player select the "support" role (if they choose to have one) and that player receives synergy (this effect does not apply to characters whose sole role is "carry&quot

hey

Personally, I don't see a problem with giving everyone this ability. It's useless to you if you're one of the 4 farming champs. (Okay, it might have some relevance to late-game minion waveclears. Don't see a problem there, though: it says "hey, bonus gold if you can afford to send two people here".)


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Griftrix

Senior Animation Engineer

11-01-2012

Hello. I'd like to remind everyone that i am NOT a game designer.

I think an important point between the Sona vs Annie thing is that a support is strong because of their utility abilities. These abilities are not improved with AP (stuns don't get longer, speed buffs don't get speedier). The kit of a support with lots of utility is balanced around that.

Someone like Annie are strong because they can kill people. More items (and therefore more AP) helps her do that better. This is why a fed Annie will kill a fed Sona. Gold on Annie scales more than gold on Sona, because Annie's strengths get stronger with gold (and AP items) while Sona's don't get as strong, because her strength is in the utility, not the damage.


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Kaolla

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
ElementzPRO:
Wow morello is so bad at this game

An Annie with 40% farm vs a Sona with 40% farm I would choose Sona every day.

Annie with 40% farm isn't gonna be doing anything. Annie is useful when she can burst someone. 40% farm annie isn't gonna burst anything. Sona would still be able to stun everything regardless.


you must be smoking crack either that or you don't know that annie's stun is her PASSIVE.

furthermore you don't understand team dynamics if you think an AoE char like annie is supposed to burst someone by herself. the power of these chars is the combined aoe damage, of which even with 40% farm you apply a strong contribution to the damage.

sona's aoe damage on the otherhand is negligible even with farm.