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[Featured Discussion] Support Role Suggestion

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Nocte Prime

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Griftrix:
I might have a fundamental problem in taking your side in this discussion because I play jungle and support. I believe support is a powerful and fun role so I don't have a good understanding of your feelings that it's bad and not fun to play 0 CS support. You might be totally right that most people don't want to play support, but this issue doesn't happen in my games, because I'll take this role if the team needs it.


This man thinks playing a gold starved support is fun. No wonder we've been stuck with this gameplay for so long. Fire this man and anyone else who thinks like him Riot.

The bottom line is this: it isn't fun having no gold the entire game. Yeah, Sona is very effective as far as supports go (at least pre recent nerfs), but she'd be much more effective if she could actually get around to completing a full build. Or if there were some variety to what supports could build. Every support builds Shurelya's and Aegis IF they're lucky enough to have the gold for them. If your team is losing your lack of gold just gets compounded because the enemy team has an Oracles and is killing your wards faster than you can buy and place them. Mister, if I had a rubber hose...


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Griftrix

Senior Animation Engineer

11-01-2012

Quote:
Nevara:

Now ask, would you ever want a Janna with 600 AP over a 600 AP Annie (or Lux or Zyra or Karthus or any conventional AP mid) given her current situation? The answer is of course not. One support aspect scaling (ie: a shield) is not enough to warrant supports getting farm for AP (or other non-support) items.

Every skill in their kit should be provided scaling - Just like every other character archetype.


I don't think that's a fair comparison. It's almost (keep in mind I'm using a literary technique here, and not being literal) like saying would you rather have a Janna with 400 AD or a Draven with 400 AD. I'd rather have a Janna with 40% CDR, reverie, aegis, and some other items (I play in your face supports so I don't know how to build a back line support), than a similarly geared Annie. Janna brings some fun things to the party, and I don't think every champion with AP ratios needs to build AP to be fun to play.


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JoeyMakesMagic

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Playing support is not fun because half the time your lane partner is an idiot. The other half the time when your lane partner is good you realize how much supporting is not fun because your kit is so damn weak.


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Bekkal

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Hostile Miku:
I like the idea of more viable 0 CS supports

I hate the idea of the execution they are doing right now (E.G lowing the support powerbar so more champions leak in who can do it just as effective)

I mean, look at the past, AP Janna is viable...Nerfed because it's viable....Now Support Zyra is viable....Yet to be seen a problem that she can be both AP and support, when Janna did this, it was in need to be nerfed right?


Then you'll be happy to hear that this simply isn't the case.


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Pryotra

Senior Member

11-01-2012

=( why giftrix no respond? I thought I displayed my view in a very logical manor without hyperboles (well, not too many at least. And the ones that are there still hold some truth to them.)


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NA1

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Nocte Prime:
This man thinks playing a gold starved support is fun. No wonder we've been stuck with this gameplay for so long. Fire this man and anyone else who thinks like him Riot.

The bottom line is this: it isn't fun having no gold the entire game. Yeah, Sona is very effective as far as supports go (at least pre recent nerfs), but she'd be much more effective if she could actually get around to completing a full build. Or if there were some variety to what supports could build. Every support builds Shurelya's and Aegis IF they're lucky enough to have the gold for them. If your team is losing your lack of gold just gets compounded because the enemy team has an Oracles and is killing your wards faster than you can buy and place them. Mister, if I had a rubber hose...



While I appreciate you driving home my point that most people hate playing a gold starved support, you're not exactly being civil. He's not on the design team, so shut it.


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Rav Abaddon

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Griftrix:
Hello. I'd like to remind everyone that i am NOT a game designer.

Lmfao

Good thing you thought of that


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And it was K

Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
NA1:
Then perhaps I should back up my experience with some numbers.

In my past 200 games of Normal Draft, only twice has someone called support. In almost every single one, has someone called Top or Mid or Jungle. In about 25% someone called ADC.


But hey, that's suspect and not exactly hard numbers, I get that. I'll start recording how often someone is forced to play support vs. someone more than willing to play support in my future games. I'll update you in a couple weeks.



But it's difficult to tell whether those people dislike support because it really is unfun, or because there's the stigma that support is unfun and the "b*tch" role. Most people that play support unwillingly don't understand it at all, and don't want to take the time to do so. ANYTHING will be boring if you just sit in the bush, disgruntled with the world, doing nothing and wishing you could play another role.


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Postal Miku

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Griftrix:
I don't think that's a fair comparison. It's almost (keep in mind I'm using a literary technique here, and not being literal) like saying would you rather have a Janna with 400 AD or a Draven with 400 AD. I'd rather have a Janna with 40% CDR, reverie, aegis, and some other items (I play in your face supports so I don't know how to build a back line support), than a similarly geared Annie. Janna brings some fun things to the party, and I don't think every champion with AP ratios needs to build AP to be fun to play.


Another thing, supports get almost no counterplay with items
Only thing they have to counter with is pinkwards and oracles(what is about 90% more effective on your tank because they specialise in NOT DYING)

Every other champion gets them, but supports don't, seems like every support item is abused by tanks/tanky dpses/mids, I find it almost impossible to get an Aegis on Sona because my tank buys it first, and then that hardly leaves me with any defensive options as their next item is presumebly Frozen Heart


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Griftrix

Senior Animation Engineer

11-01-2012

Quote:
Nocte Prime:
This man thinks playing a gold starved support is fun. No wonder we've been stuck with this gameplay for so long. Fire this man and anyone else who thinks like him Riot.


Did you miss the many parts of my posts on this thread where I said I have nothing to do with game design and balance? I program animation tech. Just because you don't like a certain role doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.