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Why I'm Leaving

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Wrathofrecca

Senior Member

11-25-2012

tldrm (to long didn't read much)

I'm sorry you're butt hurt. However the old TTL was broke beyond belief. Many of the old problems are gone and the new altars are great. Most people miss that the altars encourage/force team fights which is awesome. I've had some crazy **** happen at them and I love it. It breaks up the otherwise stalemates that are inevitable.

The old TTL as I said had many problems. To name two wall hopping was OP for certain champions and almost required you play someone with wall hopping to be competitive. This caused bruisers with wall hops to be dominate and what ended up happening was only a small pool of champions were even viable. There are a few exceptions to this rule but only if you yourself broke the meta. I saw a game where Vayne/Nunu, a champ who isn't seen that often on TTL do well. This only worked because the enemy team wasn't playing the meta and picked poorly thus allowing Vayne to be viable. With a little snowballing and help from jungler Nunu she became incredible strong. Regardless, champions like Shyvana, Mundo, Teemo, Shaco, Jax, Lee Sin, Rengar and Tryndamere dominated the scene. The only viable AP champions I ever saw were Cassi and Gragas but only if they were well protected. For this reason and more TTL failed to bloom into something competitive. It was nothing more than a who can out pick map.

May it rot in peace.


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Alpha Q23

Senior Member

11-25-2012

I have left LoL also. The old TT map was the main reason I would log on and play. The other reason was my friends would play co op since they don't like pvp too much in any game really. Those friends have stopped playing LoL since they prefer guild wars 2 I guess (I won't join that, not a fan of mmorpgs too much.)

I have tried this "new" TT map. It is an alright map, I just don't find it fun. For that reason I don't have a reason to log on any more so I uninstalled a little while ago and will probably only come back once the old TT is back like it use to be. No not in customs, but exactly like it was. If they add the summoners platform walls that's fine, I personally didn't care much about turtling either way. But once they bring back the good ol TT I'll be back.

For those of you who stick it out in the other LoL maps, good luck to ya and have fun. That is the whole point of a game after all. And when its no longer fun you should find something else thats fun. I still got to find that.


And to those of you who say "ohh you will be back, you are still on the forums after all." Well I'll be back if old tt comes back, until then I will just watch the forums for a sign.

Off topic, anyone know of any good space type games where you can fly around in your ship, walk around your ship, or land? Not Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic, I've played those and beat them. I've tried star trek online and its alright, but again, mmorpgs won't hold my attention for long. Longest mmorpg that held my attention was Star Wars Galixies. So far the closest thing to what i'm looking for seems to be this game comming out...Infinity? something like that.


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Alpha Q23

Senior Member

11-25-2012

Quote:
Exqzr:
Haeval,

I believe I have read pretty much every post you have written on this subject.

I will say, I have never complained about the remake of a champ. I think this is really up to Riot to determine up to and including deleting a champ all together.

A MAP mode, essentially a game within itself is a whole other level of WTF? The money I spent on Riot was to play that MAP. That's it. If that map never existed, I would not have given them hundreds of dollars to support them.

So yeah, for me too its feels like a betrayal. Because I don't see the value in playing this new map. I don't see that much value in playing SR (that said, I do like to "watch" the pros play on SR more so than I do on 3 v 3 - partly because if you watched LoLolympics you realise how bad most of them are on the 3 v 3 map). No Classic TT means All my "return value" for my purchases is gone.

I don't fee that's fair.

Anyway, Please check in often and say hello when you do.


I didn't spend hundreds like you did, but I did spend quite a bit of money. More so than I probably should of. I thought I would just put out what I could and support riot. The only reason I gave money and played League of Legends was for the old TT map. This new map is a slap to the face. It wouldn't be a slap if it was a seperate game mode, but since its not I'm taking my bruised cheek and moving on.

R.I.P TT, you will be missed.


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Alpha Q23

Senior Member

11-25-2012

Quote:
Wrathofrecca:
tldrm (to long didn't read much)

I'm sorry you're butt hurt. However the old TTL was broke beyond belief. Many of the old problems are gone and the new altars are great. Most people miss that the altars encourage/force team fights which is awesome. I've had some crazy **** happen at them and I love it. It breaks up the otherwise stalemates that are inevitable.

The old TTL as I said had many problems. To name two wall hopping was OP for certain champions and almost required you play someone with wall hopping to be competitive. This caused bruisers with wall hops to be dominate and what ended up happening was only a small pool of champions were even viable. There are a few exceptions to this rule but only if you yourself broke the meta. I saw a game where Vayne/Nunu, a champ who isn't seen that often on TTL do well. This only worked because the enemy team wasn't playing the meta and picked poorly thus allowing Vayne to be viable. With a little snowballing and help from jungler Nunu she became incredible strong. Regardless, champions like Shyvana, Mundo, Teemo, Shaco, Jax, Lee Sin, Rengar and Tryndamere dominated the scene. The only viable AP champions I ever saw were Cassi and Gragas but only if they were well protected. For this reason and more TTL failed to bloom into something competitive. It was nothing more than a who can out pick map.

May it rot in peace.


Hopefully you will be there rotting first. Then we have to salt the soil in which your lay so corrupted unpure vegetation will not grow.


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it188

Junior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Haeval:
1. Priorities and Lies.

Riot isn't showing proper priorities. I first was introduced with this with the whole Evelynn fiasco. For over a year an occasional red would say that Evelynn's fixes were "top priority," but I couldn't see that as being the case. One time I made a list of the amount of champions that were released in that interim, including the amount of skins, hot-fixes on ARTWORK, not to mention coming out with Dominion as an entire map. In the meantime Evelynn and balancing issues were just put on the backburner.

2. Repeated Offenses.

Just like the new TT map, Evelynn was remade into a completely different feel. Does that make her bad? No, but she isn't the same character. They couldn't keep the style of play she originally provided (or just wouldn't), and they fail to do the same thing with the new map. I believe NOW that both were intentional. Instead of trying to achieve what their target audience says about their craftmenship, they end up burning the canvas altogether and bringing out something completely new.

How popular is Evelynn now, Riot? I can't even find her on the charts at LoLking (although at least she's not in the bottom 10 like she used to be).

In the same attitude the new TT has replaced for feel, gameplay style, and mode, the old one. Does this mean the new is bad? No. It is developing its own metas, and people are playing it. I'm not going to try and make projections on how many will STILL play it after a month or so, but at least for their beta testing a brand new product, the popularity is holding. However, it's not the same feel. It has erased the reason why so many people actually played the old one (to have a smaller version of SR--not shorter, SMALLER).

3. Bedside Manner

I know that reds check the forum somewhat regularly. I know they're reading what we're saying (or at least glancing/scanning a lot of it). They also claim to be "watching altar reactions carefully" (quote from Kitae, though she was more interested in lore in that part of the reddit interview).

What I can't understand is why some players' issues about the NEW map are answered almost immediately, while other threads are forced to build petition signs and upvotes to STILL NOT GET A REPLY. Sure, some of the people signing are raging at the same time. It's understandable. They're upset.

How many people would it take before Riot stopped ignoring us? I'll tell you what I've decided: they just don't care. How did I decide this? In that same interview on Reddit, the first response to just ONE of the communities unanswered questions was finally addressed.

IT TOOK AN EXTERNAL INTERVIEW CORNERING RIOT EMPLOYEES IN A QUESTION FOR THIS TO GET ANSWERED, WHEN RIOT DOES NOT HAVE THE DECENCY TO ADDRESS IT ON THEIR OWN FORUM.

This is by far the largest offense Riot has had. Regardless of whether or not you hate/love the new map; regardless of whether or not something (the only thing) you truly loved was taken away and replaced with a twisted sister that has nothing of the same feel, I feel that the Riot community deserves to be treated better than this.

4. The move away from strategy.

This, from what I can see, is more of a personal feel to the game, but it's my fourth point. It is true that a player's mechanic skill can make the difference in a LOT of games. Players like Shy and Sám have proven this time and again. However, a large part of it is strategy, communication, etc.

I am beginning to see a shift in actual strategic possibilities, moving toward more simplistic gameplay. Shadow Isles, for instance, seems to be focused around baiting/drawing the other team into teamfights, while having a map with so narrow paths available and so few escapes for "caught" champions, that even team selection/composition is taking a hit for it.

Yes, if your gameplay mechanics are flawless, like Sám, you can still manage to get out of some of these situations. However, if you're not that skilled (not UNSKIILLED, mind you, but just not on the TOP ranked level), you are subject to needing bruiser-heavy team compositions. You are forced to play what is popular as "top tier" champs. You are forced half the time to be subject to the whims of a 12-year-old kid that only understands two aspects of League strategy, when, with a more versatile map, you have mastered maybe hundreds of different strategies that would leave this same opponent reeling and wondering for hours what actually happened.

The problem with rating champions and putting them into tiers is that OFTEN, this is based off of the OP's play style. Yes, that OP might be a high-end ranked player, so his play style might be working for him. Does that mean this is the only way people should try to play the game if they want to do well?

In spite of Riot saying they wanted more versatility, and claiming the new map was, in part, for that reason, I find that it actually just favors the builds/champs that were already in "top tier." I find that it takes away hundreds of strategies because of map design. It is intriguing to me that adding more objectives on a map can actually dumb down the strategy required, but that's what has happened.

I can handle more than 5 strategies. I am not the best player out there, but I enjoyed the challenge of facing a varied strategy. I enjoyed employing varied strategies and playing endless mind games with my opponents.

Now, at this point, I'm sure a lot of you will probably flame me for my post, saying "WAS TURTLING ALL DAY LONG YOUR IDEA OF EXTREME STRATEGY?"

To these people I would say that I had at least 20 different strategies to DEAL with turtling, but if so many people were butthurt over it, that was the easiest fix to make. Riot could have simply put a little bit of space between the spawn point and the nexus and put the turret on the other side of the nexus. There you go. Turret's too far away to turtle, and minions can't be led into the fountain. I came up with that, and I'm not EVEN on the design team?!?!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now, because of these reasons (primarily # 3), I am leaving. Does this mean I am leaving for good? I'm not sure. I'll check forums every now and then to see if Riot is trying to do a better job. I might load the client a few times over the next couple months to see if anything has been addressed/changed.

As for trying to do anything with the community, I'm just tired. I'm tired of pounding my head against a brick wall here. I'll go lick my wounds and get on with my life, because Riot obviously doesn't care about these problems.


--------


On a side note, thank you, Nakumine, for this:



I'm in no way with my 4th point trying to demean your play style either. It takes finesse and skill to properly execute the strategies involved in the new map, but they're not my style, and I just find there too be fewer tangents--fewer variables--in strategy.

I honestly wish I had the patience to just play SR, but it grinds on me how many NUMBERS of trolls dominate solo ques. It grinds me how long it takes to get TO a team fight without teleport (and even with teleport, it's only good for 1 out of 3 teamfights late game). The style of SR game play is my speed, but I just loved the smaller map. I loved a condensed version.

That said, I probably would have gritted my teeth and become attached to SR, if it weren't for #2 and #3 above.


What a well thought out post. I find it refreshing to hear from such a passionate summoner such as yourself. Your points are well thought out and articulated in a way to drive your point across without coming of as a flamer.
I have seen posts that claim that the fans of the original TT cannot deal with change and that change is good. I would like for those posters to read a well thought out response such as yours before attaching such a negative label of "afraid of change". I stand with you in your quest to have Riot answer for the changes that they have made to a map that has stood the test of time.
While I can certainly understand Riot's need to expand their business into fresh arenas, I cannot understand the need to flame a great product with no viable explanation. I have used the Coke vs New Coke in a few of my posts as my example of a company changing something for the sake of change and how that change can back fire if the change is not handled in a way that satisfies a loyal customer base.
I am in no way suggesting that Riot is anywhere on the same level as Coke as a product with decades, if not centuries, of dedicated customers that have grown up always having access to their favorite product. But I think that Riot should think about releasing the original TT back, as Coke finally did, and let us the customers vote with our money as opposed to making a decision for us.
I am 43 years old and i can make my own decisions on how to spend the money that I earn on a product that I like or dislike. Each year my children ask me what I want for Christmas and each year I tell them the same thing. 1 give me your time and love and 2 Riot points. This year I will now be able to narrow my Christmas wish list on 1 thing and that is something Riot has no control of.
Respectively,
Isreal Trent
Saddened Summoner it188


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it188

Junior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Wrathofrecca:
tldrm (to long didn't read much)

I'm sorry you're butt hurt. However the old TTL was broke beyond belief. Many of the old problems are gone and the new altars are great. Most people miss that the altars encourage/force team fights which is awesome. I've had some crazy **** happen at them and I love it. It breaks up the otherwise stalemates that are inevitable.

The old TTL as I said had many problems. To name two wall hopping was OP for certain champions and almost required you play someone with wall hopping to be competitive. This caused bruisers with wall hops to be dominate and what ended up happening was only a small pool of champions were even viable. There are a few exceptions to this rule but only if you yourself broke the meta. I saw a game where Vayne/Nunu, a champ who isn't seen that often on TTL do well. This only worked because the enemy team wasn't playing the meta and picked poorly thus allowing Vayne to be viable. With a little snowballing and help from jungler Nunu she became incredible strong. Regardless, champions like Shyvana, Mundo, Teemo, Shaco, Jax, Lee Sin, Rengar and Tryndamere dominated the scene. The only viable AP champions I ever saw were Cassi and Gragas but only if they were well protected. For this reason and more TTL failed to bloom into something competitive. It was nothing more than a who can out pick map.

May it rot in peace.

You mean to say that widening the map and making thicker walls could not have removed the problems that you are eluding to? There was no need to scrap the original map altogether was there? Many of us were aware of the problem but still enjoyed the feel that the original map offered.


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it188

Junior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Alpha Q23:
Hopefully you will be there rotting first. Then we have to salt the soil in which your lay so corrupted unpure vegetation will not grow.


Instead of flaming an unhappy fan of the original TT with a quick unintelligent response, try putting some effort into your response. I believe that Riot is supporting small minded people like you with uninteresting new products. The new TT appeals to players that will not, or cannot, make intelligent responses. I would ask that unless you have an actual post to make, that you refrain from do anything more than simply reading posts.
When you actually have a good point, supported by more than inflammatory comments, come back and participate rather than degrading the conversation with your less than helpful comments.

Respectfully
Summoner it188


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PurpleURP

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Exqzr:
Haeval,

I believe I have read pretty much every post you have written on this subject.

I will say, I have never complained about the remake of a champ. I think this is really up to Riot to determine up to and including deleting a champ all together.

A MAP mode, essentially a game within itself is a whole other level of WTF? The money I spent on Riot was to play that MAP. That's it. If that map never existed, I would not have given them hundreds of dollars to support them.

So yeah, for me too its feels like a betrayal. Because I don't see the value in playing this new map. I don't see that much value in playing SR (that said, I do like to "watch" the pros play on SR more so than I do on 3 v 3 - partly because if you watched LoLolympics you realise how bad most of them are on the 3 v 3 map). No Classic TT means All my "return value" for my purchases is gone.

I don't fee that's fair.

Anyway, Please check in often and say hello when you do.


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