Why I'm Leaving

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Haeval

Senior Member

10-31-2012

1. Priorities and Lies.

Riot isn't showing proper priorities. I first was introduced with this with the whole Evelynn fiasco. For over a year an occasional red would say that Evelynn's fixes were "top priority," but I couldn't see that as being the case. One time I made a list of the amount of champions that were released in that interim, including the amount of skins, hot-fixes on ARTWORK, not to mention coming out with Dominion as an entire map. In the meantime Evelynn and balancing issues were just put on the backburner.

2. Repeated Offenses.

Just like the new TT map, Evelynn was remade into a completely different feel. Does that make her bad? No, but she isn't the same character. They couldn't keep the style of play she originally provided (or just wouldn't), and they fail to do the same thing with the new map. I believe NOW that both were intentional. Instead of trying to achieve what their target audience says about their craftmenship, they end up burning the canvas altogether and bringing out something completely new.

How popular is Evelynn now, Riot? I can't even find her on the charts at LoLking (although at least she's not in the bottom 10 like she used to be).

In the same attitude the new TT has replaced for feel, gameplay style, and mode, the old one. Does this mean the new is bad? No. It is developing its own metas, and people are playing it. I'm not going to try and make projections on how many will STILL play it after a month or so, but at least for their beta testing a brand new product, the popularity is holding. However, it's not the same feel. It has erased the reason why so many people actually played the old one (to have a smaller version of SR--not shorter, SMALLER).

3. Bedside Manner

I know that reds check the forum somewhat regularly. I know they're reading what we're saying (or at least glancing/scanning a lot of it). They also claim to be "watching altar reactions carefully" (quote from Kitae, though she was more interested in lore in that part of the reddit interview).

What I can't understand is why some players' issues about the NEW map are answered almost immediately, while other threads are forced to build petition signs and upvotes to STILL NOT GET A REPLY. Sure, some of the people signing are raging at the same time. It's understandable. They're upset.

How many people would it take before Riot stopped ignoring us? I'll tell you what I've decided: they just don't care. How did I decide this? In that same interview on Reddit, the first response to just ONE of the communities unanswered questions was finally addressed.

IT TOOK AN EXTERNAL INTERVIEW CORNERING RIOT EMPLOYEES IN A QUESTION FOR THIS TO GET ANSWERED, WHEN RIOT DOES NOT HAVE THE DECENCY TO ADDRESS IT ON THEIR OWN FORUM.

This is by far the largest offense Riot has had. Regardless of whether or not you hate/love the new map; regardless of whether or not something (the only thing) you truly loved was taken away and replaced with a twisted sister that has nothing of the same feel, I feel that the Riot community deserves to be treated better than this.

4. The move away from strategy.

This, from what I can see, is more of a personal feel to the game, but it's my fourth point. It is true that a player's mechanic skill can make the difference in a LOT of games. Players like Shy and Sám have proven this time and again. However, a large part of it is strategy, communication, etc.

I am beginning to see a shift in actual strategic possibilities, moving toward more simplistic gameplay. Shadow Isles, for instance, seems to be focused around baiting/drawing the other team into teamfights, while having a map with so narrow paths available and so few escapes for "caught" champions, that even team selection/composition is taking a hit for it.

Yes, if your gameplay mechanics are flawless, like Sám, you can still manage to get out of some of these situations. However, if you're not that skilled (not UNSKIILLED, mind you, but just not on the TOP ranked level), you are subject to needing bruiser-heavy team compositions. You are forced to play what is popular as "top tier" champs. You are forced half the time to be subject to the whims of a 12-year-old kid that only understands two aspects of League strategy, when, with a more versatile map, you have mastered maybe hundreds of different strategies that would leave this same opponent reeling and wondering for hours what actually happened.

The problem with rating champions and putting them into tiers is that OFTEN, this is based off of the OP's play style. Yes, that OP might be a high-end ranked player, so his play style might be working for him. Does that mean this is the only way people should try to play the game if they want to do well?

In spite of Riot saying they wanted more versatility, and claiming the new map was, in part, for that reason, I find that it actually just favors the builds/champs that were already in "top tier." I find that it takes away hundreds of strategies because of map design. It is intriguing to me that adding more objectives on a map can actually dumb down the strategy required, but that's what has happened.

I can handle more than 5 strategies. I am not the best player out there, but I enjoyed the challenge of facing a varied strategy. I enjoyed employing varied strategies and playing endless mind games with my opponents.

Now, at this point, I'm sure a lot of you will probably flame me for my post, saying "WAS TURTLING ALL DAY LONG YOUR IDEA OF EXTREME STRATEGY?"

To these people I would say that I had at least 20 different strategies to DEAL with turtling, but if so many people were butthurt over it, that was the easiest fix to make. Riot could have simply put a little bit of space between the spawn point and the nexus and put the turret on the other side of the nexus. There you go. Turret's too far away to turtle, and minions can't be led into the fountain. I came up with that, and I'm not EVEN on the design team?!?!

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Now, because of these reasons (primarily # 3), I am leaving. Does this mean I am leaving for good? I'm not sure. I'll check forums every now and then to see if Riot is trying to do a better job. I might load the client a few times over the next couple months to see if anything has been addressed/changed.

As for trying to do anything with the community, I'm just tired. I'm tired of pounding my head against a brick wall here. I'll go lick my wounds and get on with my life, because Riot obviously doesn't care about these problems.


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On a side note, thank you, Nakumine, for this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakumine View Post
Just wanted to say Haevel after lurking around the forums for a couple days and seeing you so active in it that it will be a shame to lose such a passionate summoner if you decide League isn't worth sticking with. At first I didn't understand your thoughts about the new 3s map, but after thinking some I get it and it's interesting to see how it relates to my own play style.

At first I thought it was just people being butthurt over change (change always seems to bring about strife) but now I realize that you are right about how Shadow Isles and the old TT are completely different games. Old TT and Summoner's Rift are much more strategy based and teamwork oriented (not to say that Dominion and Shadow Isles isn't at all) and those are two maps that I like(d) to play but struggled more with.

Dominion and Shadow Isles however encourage more intense champion-on-champion fighting without turrets, minions, and a great deal of strategy getting in the way. Hence why there are altars to encourage more early game fights. These are the types of games that I tend to excel more at. I've been noticing for a while that Riot has been wanting to encourage more intense gameplay, more fighting, more kills, more deaths, take more risks etc etc and it seems like this is just the direction they want to take the game overall. Less strategy, more action.Immediate rewards and wins for being aggressive rather than sitting back and farming or formulating a killer strategy.

Just wanted to add my two cents and show my respect for your drive to have both Twisted Treeline and Shadow Isles. Thanks for respecting my play style, and I respect yours. Hope you stick around, but I understand if you don't.
I'm in no way with my 4th point trying to demean your play style either. It takes finesse and skill to properly execute the strategies involved in the new map, but they're not my style, and I just find there too be fewer tangents--fewer variables--in strategy.

I honestly wish I had the patience to just play SR, but it grinds on me how many NUMBERS of trolls dominate solo ques. It grinds me how long it takes to get TO a team fight without teleport (and even with teleport, it's only good for 1 out of 3 teamfights late game). The style of SR game play is my speed, but I just loved the smaller map. I loved a condensed version.

That said, I probably would have gritted my teeth and become attached to SR, if it weren't for #2 and #3 above.


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DrPanini

Junior Member

10-31-2012

I think you take the game a little too seriously... xD


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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

10-31-2012

If you are going to leave, then no one can stop you. In fact, It might be best to take a few days away from it all. Take a breather, play some other games and just chill away from LoL for a few days. Sometimes that's exactly what it takes to get a good look at a situation.

I'll be honest here man, I hated new TT at first. Swore up and down I was leaving as well and wanted nothing to do with TT, SR or Riot period. I spent the first two days QQing all ove the boards and whining about it. Then I gave it a real shot with some friends.

I can honestly say I am enjoying it much more now. Sure, I am not having the same fun as old TT, but it is it's own brand of fun. Keep in mind, I am in no way trying to say it will be as fun as before. I am simply saying that before is not now. Focus on what you can enjoy and not on the things you can't. If you do that I bet you will start to enjoy it again.

I was so damn happy the first time my team lost our altar at lvl 1 only to steal theirs and pick up a fisr blood on the guy guarding theirs. It felt as though I, the player, had leveled up lol.


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Nyche At Night

Member

10-31-2012

tl;dr


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Twilight Monkey

Senior Member

10-31-2012

I respect your opinions and I am sad to lose a fellow twistedtreelineré


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urmamasllama

Senior Member

10-31-2012

after reading this i understand better your reasoning and comparison to dominion and you make a good point although there are still some misconceptions.

its not a shift toward simplistic gameplay its a shift toward tactical gameplay its supposed to be a short term game so they are trying to put the focus on short term goals. I hate to say it but the same is true of dominion, but on a larger scale. strategy is a very small part of dominion and is replaced with tactics. the strategic elements are still there but they are downplayed more. however i have a feeling they are trying to make this shift toward tactics in every game mode and the changes coming to SR will probably be aimed at this as well. i think the reason a lot of people don't like the shift towards tactics is that it is quite mentally exhaustive because you are constantly having to come up with a plan on the spot. there is very little long term planning so you have to be ready to adapt at a moments notice. it's a style i personally excel at but it even makes me tired i have to take a break between dominion games to cool down because how much im thinking

as a dominion player i do understands you sentiments about being ignored as well


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xXLightRainXx

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Ik the game sucks man, but this is what we have. there no perfect thing here, money moves everything


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Exqzr

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Haeval,

I believe I have read pretty much every post you have written on this subject.

I will say, I have never complained about the remake of a champ. I think this is really up to Riot to determine up to and including deleting a champ all together.

A MAP mode, essentially a game within itself is a whole other level of WTF? The money I spent on Riot was to play that MAP. That's it. If that map never existed, I would not have given them hundreds of dollars to support them.

So yeah, for me too its feels like a betrayal. Because I don't see the value in playing this new map. I don't see that much value in playing SR (that said, I do like to "watch" the pros play on SR more so than I do on 3 v 3 - partly because if you watched LoLolympics you realise how bad most of them are on the 3 v 3 map). No Classic TT means All my "return value" for my purchases is gone.

I don't fee that's fair.

Anyway, Please check in often and say hello when you do.


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PewPoPew12

Junior Member

10-31-2012

I agree I at first really liked the new map. The first few days it wasn't over run by the bruiser meta and I had quite a few good games with champs that weren't part of the meta but after a few days every other game there was a lee singed yorick or a similiar team comp of all bruiser and it honestly ruined it for me its boring to go try hard champs in every game... especially when it isn't ranked. I think I will start leaning towards SR myself which is honestly what riot probably wanted anyway.


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CaptainAMorgan

Senior Member

11-01-2012

It's sad to see someone this "into" the game go over something so simply fixed.

I honestly think this will be the only way into RIOT's mind, but we'll see after the map loses it's playerbase in a few days/weeks.

Right now RIOT is not even acknowledging hundreds (really thousands) of people who want their map back. The reason the played the game really. I too have been having odds with RIOT, I had them back when patch days were literally a day. When they would release Xin, and remove characters from the game for a year (eve).

They have grown too much too fast. They are missing simple things like a real internal reporting system. (It's cute that they have the same trolls who report you going to tribunal and banning you)
They hardly update old models. They have only released one skin w a char for a while now compared to the old 2.

Honestly they're getting lazy IMO. This map shows how overthetop they can be, but in a terrible community DESTROYING way. Yes the TT community is dead. SI is here to stay and Morello says suck it "it's essentially the same map".
Morello, I don't know you, but if I ever did see you, I would fart in your general direction and remind you that your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

I hope that one day I can make a game so I can put **** like this under water. I will give business to Dota2 because they have already proven they can handle people and their requests. They can help the community get better with data and analysis. They afford time to fix the problems they are provided and thus far have made a very gratifying game experience. This game has like 3 sound bytes for each character. Dota has sounds for LH, denials, kills, deaths.

I am not saying that Dota 2 is inherently better, but I am saying that there is competition out there, and I really do think it will take over this game.

This game is stagnant. 2 years and it's the same stuff. You have to ALWAYS conform. You have to always deal with other people who will certainly bother you if you do badly, or troll when they do badly. You certainly will have to surrender, but those 2 dudes in Q together wont. Someone leaves, and you have to stay (5 minute timer in Dota).

It's really simple stuff that they cannot fix (bots) it's been years now and there is no sign of them fixing the boring and stagnant game experience. in Dota you can go 2-1-2 lanes, 1-1-2, 1-1-3 and vice versa. In this game, there is only one way to play, and if you do anything else you're screwed.

Then there was TT. Two fewer trolls, more opportunity to carry your team. More strategy than the current SI. More balanced IMO (and many others). Now it's gone. Soon I will be if something drastic isn't on the rise soon.

Game's boring. Game's not even taken care of. Seeing that Morello response makes me never want to have anything to do with any project that he is on. That was sick.

Hopefully we'll see you here in 2 weeks when they bring it back...