All those threads talking about role-queuing.

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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

12-21-2012

In case anyone doubts that two Rune Pages is plenty:

Rune Page 1
Magic Pen Reds
Armor Yellows
MR Blues
AP Quints

Rune Page 2
Armor Pen Reds
Armor Yellows
MR Blues
AD Quints

9 Magic Pen Reds = 9*410IP = 3690
9 Armor Pen Reds = 9*410IP = 3960
9 Flat Armor Yellows = 9*205IP = 1845
9 Flat MR Blues = 9*205IP = 1845
3 AP Quints = 3*1025IP = 3075
3 AD Quints = 3*1025IP = 3075

Total: 17220 IP. You can have this saved up to buy as soon as you hit level 20.

Use Page 1 for AP Mid, AP Toplanes, AP Jungles, and most Supports.
Use Page 2 for ADC Bot, Bruiser Toplanes, AD Casters Mid, and maybe some Supports.


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DekonCross

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Darius isnt balanced. His bleed stacking is completely OP when combined with his ult which has NO cool down and does 20% more dmg based upon the stacks of bleed he has on people. Also its more than likely if his ult doesnt kill someone itll drop them down low enough in hp to actually kill them.

Teemo's poison, singed poison, and ignite's dot tick doesnt stack and its way more balanced than darius is.

Have you ever wondered why darius is banned in 90% draft pick games? Its because he is unbalanced. I have played him because he is unbalanced. First time playing him went 23-7. I just built him like any other ADC in the game. TADAAAAAAAA Oh and the fact that his e gives him 25% armor penitration add that with BC and last whisper and armor pen runes. Yeah GG.

So 25 + 35 + bc's 25 = ? 85% armor pen? Give or take? Add in runes for 1% armor pen per mark x 9 thats what 94% armor pen. Yup that sure is balanced.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-21-2012

My rune pages are significantly different, actually...

Rune Page 1
Flat AP reds
Flat Armor yellows
Flat MR blues
Movement Speed quints

Rune Page 2
Flat AD reds
Flat Armor yellows
MR/level blues
Movement Speed quints


You need...

9 flat AD reds
9 flat AP reds
9 flat armor yellows
9 flat MR blues
9 scaling MR blues
3 Movement speed quints


I don't feel like doing the math for this, but it's probably about the same price range.


Use page 1 with most supports, and any champion that farms with abilities that scale with AP.
Use page 2 with a rare few supports, and any champion that farms with auto-attacks or abilities that scale with AD. I'd also use page 2 for jungles (even AP jungles).



Now, granted, jungles are better to use Page 2 but replace AD reds with AS reds, and supports could use a slightly different set up. No one is arguing that you're perfectly optimized with just two rune pages. I'm just saying that you can fill every role with 2 rune pages.


And if you only have 2 rune pages, you don't have enough rune pages to be fully optimized in any single role nevermind all the roles.

You can't optimize top lane to go against an AD or AP opponent while having a page set up to play as all the different champions you might play top lane. You can't, with 2 pages do this:

Riven versus Vladimir
Riven versus Jax
Riven versus Darius
Jax versus Vladimir
Jax versus Akali
Jax versus Riven
Vladimir versus Mordekaiser
Vladimir versus Jax
Vladimir versus Riven


If you want to be completely optimized for top lane, that's already 9 different rune pages just for top lane.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DekonCross View Post
Darius isnt balanced. His bleed stacking is completely OP when combined with his ult which has NO cool down and does 20% more dmg based upon the stacks of bleed he has on people. Also its more than likely if his ult doesnt kill someone itll drop them down low enough in hp to actually kill them.

Teemo's poison, singed poison, and ignite's dot tick doesnt stack and its way more balanced than darius is.

Have you ever wondered why darius is banned in 90% draft pick games? Its because he is unbalanced. I have played him because he is unbalanced. First time playing him went 23-7. I just built him like any other ADC in the game. TADAAAAAAAA Oh and the fact that his e gives him 25% armor penitration add that with BC and last whisper and armor pen runes. Yeah GG.

So 25 + 35 + bc's 25 = ? 85% armor pen? Give or take? Add in runes for 1% armor pen per mark x 9 thats what 94% armor pen. Yup that sure is balanced.
1) Darius isn't remotely banned in 90% of draft pick games. Show your source please. Mine tells me that he's banned in 10.29% of games, picked in 16.6% of games, and has a 49.93% winrate. Source: lolking.net/champions.
2) If you're building him like an ADC and not getting wrecked in teamfights, you're not playing against good players. You need to build tanky bruiser on him.
3) I don't believe Armor Pen stacks the way you think it does. Percentages generally stack multiplicatively, not additionally.
4) Darius' ult does True Damage, and his passive does Magic. So why are you so worried about Armor Pen, again, given that these are your two complaints?
5) You can't say both that his ult has no cooldown and that " its more than likely if his ult doesnt kill someone itll drop them down low enough in hp to actually kill them"
6) If you're playing against Darius, build HP. Better yet, build GA.
7) Darius needs to snowball lane or he's done. Gank him early and shut him down.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DekonCross View Post
Darius isnt balanced. His bleed stacking is completely OP when combined with his ult which has NO cool down and does 20% more dmg based upon the stacks of bleed he has on people. Also its more than likely if his ult doesnt kill someone itll drop them down low enough in hp to actually kill them.

Teemo's poison, singed poison, and ignite's dot tick doesnt stack and its way more balanced than darius is.

Have you ever wondered why darius is banned in 90% draft pick games? Its because he is unbalanced. I have played him because he is unbalanced. First time playing him went 23-7. I just built him like any other ADC in the game. TADAAAAAAAA Oh and the fact that his e gives him 25% armor penitration add that with BC and last whisper and armor pen runes. Yeah GG.

So 25 + 35 + bc's 25 = ? 85% armor pen? Give or take? Add in runes for 1% armor pen per mark x 9 thats what 94% armor pen. Yup that sure is balanced.
Thanks for proving my point.

In case you were wondering how to counter true damage: Health.

If Darius is sitting on 94% armor penetration and you're stacking armor, you're doing it wrong. Stack health.


Health counters Darius.
Any CC counters Darius.
Any top laner with a poke that out-ranges Darius' hook counters Darius.

So here's a tip, the next time you're up against a Darius, build either Frozen Mallet or Rylai's Crystal Scepter as your first item. This gives you two Darius counters no matter what champion you picked, as you're giving yourself a lot of health and you're giving yourself a slow to apply to a champion with no escapes.

Then try building either Blade of the Ruined King or a Hextech Gunblade that's going to give you at least a poke, another slow, and it's going to give you life steal/spell vamp to help counter his bleed.


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Meatflapz

Member

12-21-2012

I don’t understand why everyone is so obsessed with “roles” in the first place. A draft pick is set up so you know who the other team is using and can react accordingly.

I imagine that one day a lot of players watched two pro teams arrange theirs in the traditional “role” fashion and everyone copied it and it worked well and then everyone just became complacent due to the over whelming popularity.

Nowhere in the new user guide does it ever talk about roles and the potential toxicity they bring into the game. With the current paradigm the new user guide should include a section detailing about how you better learn to play support cause you are going to get stuck there by the rest of your selfish team that never learned support.

The next section could be about the stress coping techniques you’ll be in need of after the countless matches people will throw because they didn’t get their lane/role/way/attention as child. I have played in several blind pick games with teams of only ad’s, this works well. Teams made of only tanks even darius has a problem with.

This game is in dire need of a paradigm shift.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatflapz View Post
I don’t understand why everyone is so obsessed with “roles” in the first place. A draft pick is set up so you know who the other team is using and can react accordingly.

I imagine that one day a lot of players watched two pro teams arrange theirs in the traditional “role” fashion and everyone copied it and it worked well and then everyone just became complacent due to the over whelming popularity.
You would be completely wrong in your imagination.

To give one example: At the end of Season One, in Worlds, there was a heavy conflict in metas. Europe was mostly using a jungler and two solos, and the North American teams favoured two duo lanes. NA got crushed. Completely crushed. A jungler is just plain better than duo top, and it was being proven on the biggest stage. Ever since then, everyone uses a Jungler in competitive play.

So no, it is not laziness. I assure you, if there was a better configuration of roles in the game today than a Bruiser solo, a Caster solo, a Jungler, and a duo of an ADC and a 0-cs Support, one of the pro teams would have found it. And they would have ran away with Worlds.

Could we see a shift in the meta this season? Quite possibly. We've already started to see the Bruiser and Duo lanes swapped in high-level play due to teamcomps and matchups, and some EU teams (M5, mostly) have even started moving the APC around. But the fact of the matter is that there are 4 sources of income in LoL and 5 champions, so 2 solos, a duo and a Jungler is point-blank the best way to farm those resources. Period. End of discussion.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Double jungle.


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KnightxSScarlett

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Double jungle is the answer to the current meta. But it's never practiced, so no one can play it effectively. But when my friend and I double jungle with Malphite/Alistar, we are constantly ganking lanes and if we gank together, it's a guaranteed kill.


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ragnaraq

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Double jungle.
Awww, you took the blue...