All those threads talking about role-queuing.

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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

12-20-2012

I brought this up in another thread, but I'll say it again here for the sake of compiling everything in one thread.

Let's say I've just been playing Ranked 5s with my buddies, where I'm the Support player. We played, say, 5 games and I was Support in all of them. Due to teamcomps and such, I played Sona twice, Nunu twice, and Janna once. Now I feel like playing some SoloQ, and I'm totally burnt out on Support and feel like getting a couple pentakills with Karthus mid. I really love Blitzcrank, though, and he didn't fit into the teamcomps we ran in Ranked 5s. So I'd like to play Blitzcrank Support if he's unbanned (but he usually is), and if not I want to play a solo lane.
How do I queue up using this proposed system? Simply put, I don't.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Out of curiosity, have you queued up for ranked or normal draft pick and called "Mid unless Blitzcrank goes unbanned" and your teammates are okay with that?


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

12-20-2012

If I'm first or second pick, I've often said something like "Going to go mid, but I'll play Blitz Support if he's not banned." Nine times out of ten I end up playing mid, and once or twice I get to play Blitz and whoever would have been 'stuck' playing Support gets to play a solo lane.


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KlunkTheSpaceCat

Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalTautology View Post
So I'd like to play Blitzcrank Support if he's unbanned (but he usually is), and if not I want to play a solo lane.
How do I queue up using this proposed system? Simply put, I don't.
Great question. I'd say queue for mid then let your support know that you can play blitz if he's (she's??) available if they can go mid. Or if anyone else can shuffle roles to make what you want to do work. What do you do now when someone else calls support and someone else calls mid? I don't think this system will make it easier for you to do this specific thing, but it wouldn't be any harder than it is now, I don't think


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KlunkTheSpaceCat

Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
The thing is, new players don't really play by the meta.
Totally true. I don't think anyone wants to do this for blind normals. I think it's for normal draft solo/duo and ranked draft solo/duo.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlunkTheSpaceCat View Post
Great question. I'd say queue for mid then let your support know that you can play blitz if he's (she's??) available if they can go mid. Or if anyone else can shuffle roles to make what you want to do work. What do you do now when someone else calls support and someone else calls mid? I don't think this system will make it easier for you to do this specific thing, but it wouldn't be any harder than it is now, I don't think
What I do now is decide when it's my turn to pick what role I want of all the ones yet to be picked, regardless of what has been 'called'. So I get to have my cake and eat it too, by waiting to see what has banned and what the other team has picked before deciding if I'd like to play a solo, bot, or jungle.


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TheMasterPrime

Junior Member

12-20-2012

This should be a thing. Primarily because I'm tired of these people coming in, calling a lane, and then playing that lane anyway. Double jungle? no problem. It's not like it hurts the team. At this point they don't care.

Ranked play needs to be a whole let less casual with greater penalties for people being a dick.


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KlunkTheSpaceCat

Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
It's just as likely that one team gets an 1800 support while the other team gets a 600 support.
That's a pretty scary range, to be sure. I agree that it could have an impact on this kind of thing, but I would say that this example might be a pretty extreme one. A lot of people are playing this game at any given time. (It's a good game! Are you listening, Reds? =D?) I think that it's hard to say that the concept shouldn't even be attempted in beta because of this. You're right, the issue it should not be written off entirely, I apologize if you felt like I was being dismissive. But neither of us could possibly have any evidence of what it would be like, so we're left with two opinions. I don't think that it would be anywhere near as bad as the "600 Elo vs 1800 Elo" example makes it out to be. I'd be interested to know what range of Elo we get with the current system, we'd want to know that in order to judge how much of a variation a role-based queue might introduce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
And I, for one, would much rather play a role other than my preferred role in order to have a competitive match than to work in a system that guarantees me my favorite role, but means matches are less competitive (and therefore less fun).
I applaud you, I often play roles other than my preferred ones as well, and I love to get teamed with players like you. This change isn't about letting capable players play what they feel like, it's about making it so that people who can only play one role don't ruin matches when they don't end up playing that role. Players like you can just check off the roles they feel like playing and see what they get. Regarding competitiveness, I think forcing someone to play a role with which they are unfamiliar drastically reduces their effective Elo for that match; introducing a lack of competitiveness which I argue could be greater than the imbalance introduced by the system having to select higher or lower Elo supports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
I don't know. I think giving the option for both is actually significantly worse than forcing one or the other (for queue time reasons primarily).
I was being a little coy, I apologize. My point is that if most players were given the option to play the role(s) they know for the price of having to wait a bit longer, I'm pretty sure they would take it.

Continued props for your thoughtful responses, my friend.


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KlunkTheSpaceCat

Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalTautology View Post
What I do now is decide when it's my turn to pick what role I want of all the ones yet to be picked, regardless of what has been 'called'. So I get to have my cake and eat it too, by waiting to see what has banned and what the other team has picked before deciding if I'd like to play a solo, bot, or jungle.
You are awesome and look me up if you want a duo queue partner. Role-based draft queue is about making it so people who can only play one role don't ruin games when they don't end up getting that role. Your flexibility would be an asset for your team just as often in a role-based queue as it is currently, if the other players can also play multiple roles, you have the luxury of a little flexibility. This system should not require anyone to play any given role, it should just ensure that for any given team, each role can be played by at least one player.


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Purple Bavarois

Junior Member

12-20-2012

I agree with Klunk.
I think maybe it should just be optional instead of mandatory. We'd get normal blind, normal draft and normal role-queue or something like that.

The matchmaking stuff Pogo^4 brought to the table is still an issue though.