Fixes for the new map

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xMistressAthenax

Senior Member

10-30-2012

There are alot of glaring issues with the new map. I for one absolutely hate it. Anyone who doesnt play tanky DPS will hate it. Let me point out many of the glaring issues.

1) To fast paced and heavily favors the "winning" team.

Fast doesnt = skill, the faster you make something, less skill required for that said thing. This applies for everything in life.

Team 1) gets 1-2 lucky team fight wins, or is heavily aggressive right off the bat, they now win the game on a much higher average than in the old TT. I've had comebacks in the old TT, quite a few of them, the fight can go back and forth, the new TT doesnt allow for this, ever...

The team who holds the shrines, wins the game, to hold a shrine, you need to be aggressive, to be aggressive you need to be out of lane. The new map has no real laning phase, it has a "grab the shrines and defend them" phase, which is the "we just won cuz we hold both shrines" phase, the new map is broken down into 1 phase, the "you win or lose" phase at the first 10 minutes of the game.

I dont find that fun, skillfull, or impressive.

2) You said this map would bring balance between squishy chars, and tanky DPS chars would have a tougher time...

This is not the case....

Infact its worse...

With the current setup, the battles are so fast paced, and extremely aggressive, this doesnt allow for squishy champs to even get a build going, unless of course your getting lucky in those team fights. You took out Items to "diminish the tankyness of DPS" chars yet you put in an item which heavily favors them?

You need to use just an ounce of common sense, and you'll realize faster games = DPS wins the game type gameplay. Which means, Tanky DPS is even more favored, and given a huge lead in the new map than even the old TT. This is a massive fail in my book.

3) You said again riot, that this map would bring balance to characters. BALANCE is the key word... You've done nothing of that in this new map. Sure Shaco, eve, twitch cannot shoot and scoot as easy.... but wait.. invisible champs are now utterly useless, (especially Akali who is all but worthless now, including shaco), with the Dominion style "see everything invisible for free" items you have overloaded the shop with. I dont find this balanced..

I also dont find it balanced how blink champs such as ez, and shaco are further diminished to uselessness, you didnt "diminish" their ability to blink away, you destroyed it. This IS NOT balance.. What does it do? Favors Tanky DPS even more. I think you need to understand what the word balance means...

=============================

Riot, Riot, Riot.. You had 2 maps. 3v3, and 5v5, and then you came out with a whole new game mode Dominion, this allowed BALANCE in the game.. those who liked 3v3, those who liekd 5v5, and sometimes to play Dominion when you feel like a change...

This 3v3 is destroyed, the reason 3v3 players like myself liked 3v3, is destroyed, the only people who truly like or love this new map is tanky DPS players..... I cannot play Akali, my only form of defense, W, is utterly useless, and I'm focused and shut down in seconds in team fights...

The battle in 3v3 is as unbalanced as ever, There is no defense, there is no tactics, there is no strategy, its relentless assault on the the other team, and whoever gets more lucky in the first 3 team fights wins the game....

This is not fun riot

This doesnt require skill

No tactics, no strategy.....

Faster isnt better...

and ontop of all that ... faster.... favors.... Tanky... DPS....

-smacks Riots forhead- someone coulda had a V8

These things need to be changed, I feel the map needs a serious overhaul if your ever gonna make this map worthwhile for anyone but Tanky DPS chars...


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Lolki

Senior Member

10-30-2012

Well my experience does not at all correlate with your own it seems. I play Zyra almost exclusively and have won 80% of my games. In quite a few cases we were behind in the beginning, having lost the first team fight and both shrines, and still pushed on for a win.

In many cases we may be behind in kills but I can still get a build going fine by farming properly and knowing when to engage the enemy team, when to roam the jungle for gold and when to move in quickly to take an Alter. This map is very much about proper timing more so then SR.


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xMistressAthenax

Senior Member

10-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolki View Post
Well my experience does not at all correlate with your own it seems. I play Zyra almost exclusively and have won 80% of my games. In quite a few cases we were behind in the beginning, having lost the first team fight and both shrines, and still pushed on for a win.

In many cases we may be behind in kills but I can still get a build going fine by farming properly and knowing when to engage the enemy team, when to roam the jungle for gold and when to move in quickly to take an Alter. This map is very much about proper timing more so then SR.
That simply means the other team wasnt aggressive. You should have no ability to farm, at all, if they won the team fight, the map is so small they can police the farm area, and make sure u dont ever get a chance to farm.

That still isnt balanced at all. Yes I'll admit -sometimes- you can come back, but very rarely, its the more aggressive team that wins, period. There is NO DEFENSE in the new map, none.... no way to get out of ganks, no real way to retreat either. The more aggressive team is the winning team. Period.

And when you start losing, you cannot ever come back, at all, unless the other team isnt aggressive, and doesnt watch for you, and lets you get free farm.


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xMistressAthenax

Senior Member

10-30-2012

oh Id' also like to add, because its so easy to gank, its also equally as easy to get behind squishy champs and ruin their day, and since its harder to blink away, escape, etc. Its also impossible for non blink, squishy champs to get away from a competent enemy.

What does this do?

Favors tanky DPS....


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Lolki

Senior Member

10-30-2012

The other team was plenty aggressive, but there are ways to deal with it.If the enemy team spreads out to take all the points of interest then they are vulnerable to ganks. If the enemy team moves as a roaming pack then you can move around them and take points of interest for your own team. They can't be everywhere at once.

Of course the more aggressive team wins. Killing things gets you gold and experience, not killing things gives you nothing. To defend you aggressively attack those in your territory, taking your resources. What do you want? The team that sits under their tower all game to have a better chance at wining?

And there is plenty of ways to get out of ganks. For one, avoid them by moving around allot so the other team doesn't know where you are most of the time. Another is to always expect a gank and have a summoner spell or ability available to get out. As Zyra I never use my E (vine stun) while I am laning so that I can use it as soon as someone jumps out of a bush at me. I am constantly retreating and reengaging.

Well sure, its pretty hard to come back in the other team plays perfectly, watching you wherever you are and stopping all three of you at every turn. But that doesn't actually happen at all. As I said before, they can't actually be everywhere at once and it shouldn't take you more then 3-5 seconds to clear a camp or wave by the time mid/end game hits.

I really don't know what games you are playing but it sounds to me like you have yet to find a strategy that works on this new map and I don't see that being the fault of the map.


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Lolki

Senior Member

10-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by xMistressAthenax View Post
oh Id' also like to add, because its so easy to gank, its also equally as easy to get behind squishy champs and ruin their day, and since its harder to blink away, escape, etc. Its also impossible for non blink, squishy champs to get away from a competent enemy.

What does this do?

Favors tanky DPS....
I actually have little trouble escaping tanky dps and have far more trouble with assassins like Akali, Noc and Shaco.


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Aikimiller

Senior Member

10-30-2012

Tanky DPS dominate in a meta where there is no teamwork, and people don't know what to do, simply by virtue of having stronger base stats than any other class type. The potential for teamwork on this map is HUGE, but if you're playing solo queue it simply doesn't happen at the moment, because the map is new, a people have preconceptions from the old TT.

The reason squishy champions don't do well on this map in the current environment, is because of player behavior, not map design. When you put a squishy champion on a team, you need to have your teammates recognize that their job is to keep you alive, not to chase after low health enemies trying to secure a kill. I've been playing a lot of Vayne (because she is ridiculously good on this map), and what typically happens is I focus a target, who then retreats out of the fight. My tanky-dps allies, seeing an opportunity to get a kill, chase the low health enemy, leaving me to 1v2 the remaining opponents, and I die. When my teammates can resist the urge to break after a low health target, and instead focus on blocking for me, well, I suspect you all know what Vayne can do.

Burst AP casters, on the other hand, really aren't viable against a team of Tanky-dps, but once people realize that a team of 3 tanky-dps is actually pretty easy to beat with decent cordination, it should force a meta-game shift. Whether or not this will occur within a blind-pick solo queue driven meta is questionable though.


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FDru

Senior Member

10-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolki View Post
I actually have little trouble escaping tanky dps and have far more trouble with assassins like Akali, Noc and Shaco.
If you're playing Zyra I could understand why. She has an AOE root, an AOE knockup, then up to 3 plants that permaslow. She's probably the safest mage in the game currently, with extremely potent utility, and not surprisingly has one of the highest win rates of any champion in the game.

Teemo is safe by virtue of shrooms being his eyes all over the map, so he's generally hard to gank.

Other champions don't have such luxuries, and in my experience squishies without lots of CC and escapes are just fodder on this map.


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Artisan Of 3s

Junior Member

10-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolki View Post
I play Zyra almost exclusively and have won 80% of my games.
lol zyra.. get that joke of a champ out of 3s. i would dominate you if you picked her


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Oxus

Junior Member

10-30-2012

All your complaints are why I like the map. I prefer playing more conservative on summoner's rift and get to play aggressive on TT. Instead of working alone or with one person in a 5v5 and having troublesome ganks, we can teamfight constantly and move around and fight off ganks or gank a solo guy easily. Let's you take advantage of more abilities and play 'support' without really playing support as you can always be together.

Only thing that bothers me so far is all the games have been too short to fight that big spider!!