Why must toxic players ruin my games?

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DiplomaticHero

Junior Member

10-31-2012

Those guys can go jump off the cliff and into a pit that leads to hell where a full stacked Cho'gath can feast on him for being a dip****


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Phantyro

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Junior Member

10-31-2012

elo hell gonna end soon (for most of us) since season 3 is coming so try not to worry and just play for fun for now!


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by happyyugioh1 View Post
elo hell gonna end soon (for most of us) since season 3 is coming so try not to worry and just play for fun for now!
I hope you realize nothing is change. Your Elo is being reset, so you'll move closer to 1200 than you are now, but if you're an 800 Elo player right now, there's a pretty good chance you'll end up right back there in 3-4 months time. Likewise, if you're a 1600 player, you'll probably end up right back there in 3-4 months time.

And then, maybe then, we'll have convinced a lot of people that Elo hell is a fallacy made up by players who need an excuse for being at their current Elo rather than some higher Elo.


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AtheistGuy1

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Some of the statistics are irrelevant assumptions used to prove my point.
Some of the statistics are basic math that don't need citation. Asking for me to cite a source that explains why if there is 1 troll in a match, he will be on the enemy team 55.6% of the time and on your team 44.4% of the time is as silly as asking me to cite a source for the mathematical fact that 2+2=4. I mean, that's the level of ridiculousness it is.
I don't care about your assumptions. Give me the facts regarding this. Don't rehash this line again. Give me something to substantiate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
I mean, if I told you that when you play a match-made game on Summoner's Rift, you wouldn't ask me to cite a source that says that each team would have 5 players, would you? No? Right.
No, I'd ask if there's some arbitrary match going on in the first place. Regardless, it wouldn't be a bad idea. A little independent verification never hurts.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
That's the level of fact we're dealing with when we're talking about the 55.6% and the 44.4%. If these are the numbers that are bothering you, then I will turn this thread into a math lesson and fully explain them.
What bothers me is the assumption that accompanies these numbers. Your "Oh the other team should get the only troll in the entire game more than you. Therefore no ELO hell" response somehow ignores the fact that there is usually more than one guy that's like this (Given the nature of Ranked). The fact that there may be anywhere from one, two, or three guys on both teams).

The numbers themselves are fine. But don't start with a naive assumption, do some simple math, then turn around and act as though the result you get has any bearing on the complex situation you intend to represent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
If there is another number that is bothering you and you need me to explain where I got it from, then PLEASE let me know. I can explain 100% of my post. I didn't go into too much detail because I assume at least a certain level of knowledge so I don't want to bog the post down with too much over-explaining.
Explanations are always nice. They make sure everyone is on the same page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
But there's no source to cite for any of the data in my post.
Then you've wasted my time and leave me no reason to respond to any more of this.


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AtheistGuy1

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
And actually, AthiestGuy1, before I go on to explain much further, let me ask:
What is the highest level math class you have passed?
I've done linear equations, graphing, done quadratic equations, factoring, and will be learning to solve rational expressions tomorrow. Yourself?

Also, is there any other way I can contact you? I get the feeling GIFT has reared its ugly head and would like to find an alternative way to communicate.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Say I've got a stack of 10 cards. Of these 10 cards, 5 of them are black and 5 of them are red. They're shuffled up in a completely random order. I flip the top card over and show you that it's a black card. There are now 9 cards remaining. Five of the remaining cards are red, four of the remaining cards are black. If you HAD to bet on what color the next card is, would you choose black or red?
Did you read this?


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-31-2012

I'm going to try to take this as slowly as possible. Post by post.

Do you agree with the statement that if your true skill level and your current Elo are equal (meaning your skill level is equal to the average skill level of the other 9 players in your matches), then in EVERY game which includes 0 trolls (or whatever else you'd like to blame for Elo hell), you have a fair, 50/50 chance of winning? In other words, if there are no trolls, negative attitudes, etc. in the game on either team, the outcome is determined purely by which team plays better?

We have to at least be in agreement on this assumption before any other math needs to be discussed.


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AtheistGuy1

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Did you read this?
That depends. Did you read this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistGuy1 View Post
Yourself?

Also, is there any other way I can contact you? I get the feeling GIFT has reared its ugly head and would like to find an alternative way to communicate.


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AtheistGuy1

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
I'm going to try to take this as slowly as possible. Post by post.

Do you agree with the statement that if your true skill level and your current Elo are equal (meaning your skill level is equal to the average skill level of the other 9 players in your matches), then in EVERY game which includes 0 trolls (or whatever else you'd like to blame for Elo hell), you have a fair, 50/50 chance of winning? In other words, if there are no trolls, negative attitudes, etc. in the game on either team, the outcome is determined purely by which team plays better?

We have to at least be in agreement on this assumption before any other math needs to be discussed.
Purely? No. Largely? Indeed. Sometimes people get lucky; but a competent team can minimize the threat that poses.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistGuy1 View Post
That depends. Did you read this?
Yes, I did. I'd rather simply discuss it on the forums so that it's at the viewing pleasure of others.

If I'm going to go through an elaborate, over-explained proof, then it may as well be for public viewing.