Sejuani needs a bit of TLC

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Thessalonike

Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfury View Post
Well if the idea is making her the unique mobility tank, then I would like to see her have a damage upgrade and cooldown reduction, HP ratio on winds would be my hope, buff it to 3% at max but still start it at 1%.

Her 315 movement speed is decent, but you often have to use your dash to catch them and save your E to keep them close for your ADC. Her CC + mobility are not good enough for her to be both the least damage soak tank and least damage dealing tank.
i agree, it seems riot was afraid of making her too disruptive and left her not disruptive enough. riot could have done something with her ult similar to ashe and make her it stun for a longer duration at further distance or a larger burst radius at further distances. they could of made it work like flash frost piercing through damaging and laying the heavier stun on a priority target. it's extremely safe but it is quite lackluster. i'm all for more damage but hope its geared toward multiple targets not to duel with.

Quote:
HP alone does not make a tank. 5000 HP is far less useful than 3000 HP and 100 Armor and 100 MR, which has an effective 6000 HP against magic and normal damage. Plus 3000 HP makes your heal, HP/5, and pots way more effective since it increases your effective HP far more. But if you build that way then your W does less damage, and is already low.
i wouldn't even think about the lack of damage if she could spread it across multiple opponents better. I think this was the idea on "w" with the lower damage and larger radius... but its not large enough for her to be disruptive. it gets compared to burning agony much to much as a single target damage aura mostly.

Quote:
Just my opinion. Also, I'd argue that E is not very good for an escape/survival mechanic, R yes, but no to E because you have to turn and hit them, then pop E and run. If you're running and turn to hit them chances are you're dead. If winds applied frost however, then you'd be far more effective.
yea you need to do it early if you do, the first time melee hits you not the third, fourth etc you need to do it before not after which takes a different thought process. if they get into melee you need to pop it if you are escaping. 3 seconds is a nice chunk of time if you are waiting for "q" to come back up. if winds applied frost that would help a lot while running .

Quote:
Edit: My hope is not necessarily for a bruiser or super damage soak tank, or even for the super mobility tank. My hope is for an effective champion. One that assists more in the swing of battle. Sejuani is not a tide turner, she doesn't carry, she doesn't 1v1. She simply has initial CC, a little AOE, then runs for the next fight or dies trying. If your team is not even or ahead, the initiations don't do much unless the enemy over extends. Perhaps if everyone was on ventrillo and you could yell when you're popping your ult so everyone could spring on the enemy, but short of that your team must react immediately, because in 1 sec 4 of the enemy are back under their own control and 1 is only 1 second behind. And the slow from E only means they can't run very fast, but why would they run, they know that they all took a little damage and now are 5v4.5 since Sejuani won't do damage to them. That slow means nothing since they're trying to burst down your ADC.

So I don't care if it is tankier, bruisier, or mobilitier, she just needs to be more effective in helping your team determine the outcome of a game. Other Junglers do this throughout the whole game, not just in the lane/ganking phase. Right now I use Diana to jungle because she is just as tanky as Sejuani with her shield (which becomes tankier with more AP which gives her more damage), she is just as mobile with her ult jump, she has a small AOE pull, and with frozen mallet she trumps Sejuani's passive in both effect strength and in speed at which is delivers since she has twice the attack speed. And if the game calls for it, I can build her straight damage instead of off-tank. Sejuani doesn't have this choice.
you hit so many nails on the head especially talking about her ult. players that don't play her often praise it but like anything about her that disrupts it gets body blocked. how can sejuani effectively disrupt and game change if simple positioning blocks everything good about her.


but i defiantly care how she gets more effective. i don't want her to be more effective like amumu or as flexible as diana i want her to be sejuani a unique play experience that is just more effective.


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

11-06-2012

@rav, i forgot to not use caps.

i think that if they don't changer her abilities, just add a little something to them, like a wider aoe that adds mr/arm, or debuffs enemy, then she will become more effective and still remain very unique. it would also make you want to build her more tanky so you could stand in the middle longer.

she is free this week, does that mean they are doing something with her? i would think they'd want to do something then make her free.


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TGPopples

Member

11-06-2012

JK Guys
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2768987

I am going to be honest with you guys. Sejuani is a perfectly balanced champion in her current state.
I am a soon to be 2 gold 1 plat player.I play High Elo Dominion and tournaments as well.
Sejuani in SR as a jungle.
Step 1 is max e>w>q but you want w first q second then max e.
Rank 2-3 E allows you to jungle perfectly fine with the Q applying frost to all targets hit.
Your E is also your main ganking ability the slow increases per level from 30% to 70%
I have played Sejuani in Dominion, aranged 5's, new TT, and old TT.

Sejuani is a tank with no tank steroid; IE no shield or AR/MR buff. As such she is given 3 spells that deal damage.
Q .5 Ratio AoE, W .5 Ratio + 10% of max health AoE +50% damage of Debuffed with frost. E .5 Raito AoE on debuffed targets and lastly her .8 ratio ulti with a lower base Cd then Amumu. Her W and E have stagnant Cd's so Cdr is paramount on this champion. Also her ratios are not absurd by any means but her base damages for AoE spells are good. So Cdr with flat pen will make her deal good damage through the course of a fight. These are just a couple of tips on Sejuani I think she is a good arranged pick but a very bad solo que pick. If you guys wanted ranked Sejuani replays in Sr i am sure i can get some for you. I think this champion is good in her current state like how karma on paper is a great champion but does not fit the current meta. Sejuani fits the current meta but u need proper warding and good lvl 1 champions so avoid her getting hard counter jungled. When people see Sejuani they think invade invade invade if you can get off the ground shes a very strong champion with a good mid game however she falls off lategame where as amumu imo is stronger. Early mid game she has better ganks with higher cc/damage if the lane cant use mumu's Magic resist shread.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

11-06-2012

@arctic

yea i think you are right. you should go into construction because you are a nail hitting summoner atm...

you said "it would make you want to build her more tanky so you could stand in the middle longer. that is exactly what i want to avoid. we have stand in the middle longer, amumu, naut, galio, malph, rammus etc. sej is our single lonely choice not to do that and that is why most players fail dismally with her solo queue imo... well, that and she can't change a fight outcome to save her reputation.

she is always a lot. i think they are collecting data and i think they are doing something with skins for the remake.

don't worry about the caps i blame rickless... if we only had new info we could be released from this prison


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

11-06-2012

@hipeoples, i wish you would have posted earlier than today so i could see your ranked stats with her before the reset. 1 awesome game in normal dominion and 1 decent game on a 5 man team are hard to base a conclusion. i'll keep watching, because she is awesome with coordination, but that rarely comes in solo queue. you also have low k/d counts for ahri, which is not typical of ahri, even with high assists it's not that typical. and i'm sure those ratios will get much higher with your ability, so too little data atm, i'll stay tuned.

also, i may be way off here, but is there a champion you can't win with? they aren't all perfectly balanced and some worse than others, and i seriously doubt you would be below 50% on any of them in ranked, especially team 5v5.

Edit: also, you aren't necessarily playing teams at your skill level, working your way from 1200 when you are plat and nearly plat on every rating doesn't instill confidence in your early numbers since your whole team smashed the opposition. you'd probably win 4v5 with that skill level.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

11-06-2012

@arctic

i have seen him before the reset and he does fairly well with her but benefits from not being solo, heck not even duo most of the time. he has the benefit of a group so his view comes from that vantage point.

just a reminder riot knows this...

rickless...

Quote:
i think a lot of my sentiments have been echoed throughout this thread--sejuani is an effective and rewarding champion when she's played by someone that knows her very well, is on a coordinated team, and isn't behind. her ability to contribute to her team in a meaningful way drops significantly when any of those areas aren't up to par,


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TGPopples

Member

11-06-2012

Well i would agree that any champion that is played by a competent summoner and is not behind would have a place. When you put champions who shine in a team into solo que unless they are extreamly easy or strong they will not do well. Champions like malphite, teemo, jayce, graves, morgana, darius are extreamly easy and effective champions. Also Lol is balenced around 5v5 cordinated Summoners Rift so when champions like Sejuani who are pretty balanced but require a bit more work then their counterparts Malphite/amumu/maokai people aren't going to play her unless 2 of those 4 are banned and they can get good level 1-4 champions to cover her weeknesses. The same goes for amumu. Unless they had a specific comp in mind that requires peel and the option to back out because that is the only thing Sejuani offers over her counter parts. Malphite goes all in with Unstoppable Force, Amumu with Bandage Toss/ Curse of the sad Mummy, and Maokai with twisted advance, Sejuani is the only tanky hard innitator who can start a fight without going all in via Glacial prison. She also is the only one other then maokai with AoE Soft cc in addition to her hard CC ulti.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hipeoples View Post
JK Guys
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2768987

I am going to be honest with you guys. Sejuani is a perfectly balanced champion in her current state.
I am a soon to be 2 gold 1 plat player.I play High Elo Dominion and tournaments as well.
Sejuani in SR as a jungle.
Step 1 is max e>w>q but you want w first q second then max e.
Rank 2-3 E allows you to jungle perfectly fine with the Q applying frost to all targets hit.
Your E is also your main ganking ability the slow increases per level from 30% to 70%
I have played Sejuani in Dominion, aranged 5's, new TT, and old TT.
i don't think perfect balance is what anyone is looking for, morello even says perfect balance isn't what they are looking for and he even calls balance boring. i am glad to see you max in the same order as me, it seems to be a no brainer after actually learning sejuani but some still want to max "w" first... then again variety is the spice of life. i have also played sejuani everywhere but the difference we have if any is you almost always have the luxury of queuing up with at least one partner so you may not see issues that others do or at the minimum are not affected as much by the issues. I think we are looking for effectiveness.

Quote:
Sejuani is a tank with no tank steroid; IE no shield or AR/MR buff. As such she is given 3 spells that deal damage.
Q .5 Ratio AoE, W .5 Ratio + 10% of max health AoE +50% damage of Debuffed with frost. E .5 Raito AoE on debuffed targets and lastly her .8 ratio ulti with a lower base Cd then Amumu. Her W and E have stagnant Cd's so Cdr is paramount on this champion. Also her ratios are not absurd by any means but her base damages for AoE spells are good. So Cdr with flat pen will make her deal good damage through the course of a fight. These are just a couple of tips on Sejuani I think she is a good arranged pick but a very bad solo que pick. If you guys wanted ranked Sejuani replays in Sr i am sure i can get some for you. I think this champion is good in her current state like how karma on paper is a great champion but does not fit the current meta. Sejuani fits the current meta but u need proper warding and good lvl 1 champions so avoid her getting hard counter jungled. When people see Sejuani they think invade invade invade if you can get off the ground shes a very strong champion with a good mid game however she falls off lategame where as amumu imo is stronger. Early mid game she has better ganks with higher cc/damage if the lane cant use mumu's Magic resist shread.
its not so much that sejuani falls off late game ( well, kinda but more to the point) it's that she can't sway a game. see you can coordinate with players you play with often which helps tremendously in hiding that fact specific issue. like you said she is good arranged.


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

11-07-2012

i'm wondering if the s3 patch will give items to sej rather than change her abilities. they said they'd be looking at gold and also add more diversity of items. this is probably not enough for sej, but with a jungle that encourages more ganks, more gold and better suited items i think we're on the right track, if that is indeed what they do.


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

11-07-2012

@hipeoples, i noticed that sej let you down the last couple games, even though you did fairly well with her, still too few games to tell, but it does seem like those first two aren't the typical outcome for her. i think at the 1800+ elo she'll begin to have more and more trouble, but maybe i'm wrong, the new items may make her an excellent choice.

i like to think of sej like a really heavy train car. extremely hard to get moving, but if you do there is almost no stopping her. she never really plateaus, rather she scales really slow up front, almost a turtle's pace, then every 1000 gold adds way more to her than the previous 1000 gold, so that she picks up speed quicker and quicker. the real problem is that without great support/coordination with you team, she takes too long to scale.