Sejuani needs a bit of TLC

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Desocupado

Senior Member

11-02-2012

Maybe, Permafrost should passively increase sejuani defenses.
Another option, like I always say, improve her passive to 10/15/20/25


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Mooseville

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desocupado View Post
Maybe, Permafrost should passively increase sejuani defenses.
Another option, like I always say, improve her passive to 10/15/20/25
i suggested that it scale as well.....another good option is it could stay at 10 but reduce attack speed as well, and permafrost would reduce both as a result as well


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

11-03-2012

as debuff was in her pre released kit it was removed to give her what she has now

Thanks for the suggestion. Would you believe that Permafrost also did an Attack Speed slow in Sejuani's very first iteration for testing? While I liked how that added some "soft" durability to her and some additional utility, I ultimately decided that it was too often hidden power, or power without gameplay. That is, you were rarely pressing Permafrost for the attack speed slow--it was sort of a mostly invisible rider on the primary benefits of the skill, being the movement slow and damage.

It's not always wrong to include such mechaincs--but in this case by removing that I was able to give her power in other places--power that you are more likely to notice and appreciate in more situations--and so when playing Sejuani you overall feel as powerful as you actually are. -volty


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Lina x Inverse

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Member

11-04-2012

My biggest problems with Sejuani are;

1) Her passive is very weak. I really think this should be -20% or -25% movement speed slow. Possibly increasing to this with levels.

2) She has no real innate tankiness. If not for her W having a small amount of scaling off her health, she has nothing in her kit that helps her survive.

3) Her early game jungle is precarious leaving her with low health and isn't particularly fast either. She is also pretty reliant on mana buff from Golem. Her lack of defense is part of the problem (no shield or defense steriod), or maybe her mana costs could be reduced just a little.

On paper her CC seems solid but in practice it isn't as strong as it seems. Enemies can just get away too easy if they survive the Arctic Assault + Permafrost combo (semi longish cooldowns) because after that you have nothing except -10% movespeed on your auto attacks. Her W does its damage very slowly and requires itemizing a lot of health and is very point-blank range.

Honestly, her Ultimate is really the only good thing about her. Sejuani's spells and particularly her passive are just poorly designed.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

11-04-2012

lina, the issue is her passive is not weak. 330-10% is 297 in other words the fastest champ on the roster becomes slower than the slowest champ. it isn't stronger because it gets applied through aoe abilities also. the issue is tenacity hurts the mark and needing to stop to aa.

innate "tankiness" i guess that refers to a shield or sustain of some sort and imo you got things backwards, her entire kit except her "w" helps her survive.

precarious jungle? that's a bit over sensationalized isn't it? she isn't as blue buff dependent as you say, i start red at times and always give up the buff after the first. season three jungle will bring change... i hope it is hp/5 or attack speed.

about cc and her ultimate, imo the ultimate is the reason her cc is lackluster and is also the reason she has an inability to change the tide in a losing fight


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Mooseville

Senior Member

11-04-2012

Raviance, the slow may seem heavy at initial levels if a champ doesnt have boots. But once everyone has a minimum of T2 boots it literally seems like it does nothing. This would be less of an issue if it lasted longer than a Phage proc but they last the same time give or take .5. I would be much more impressed with the slow if it were slightly buffed to a persistant 15% that also reduced attack speed by the same amount. Something like that would improve the survivability of the entire team against AD carries and the like. Permafrost would increase both of these as well of course, but the miniscule buff to the passive % would still keep it effective.

Also, to improve her survivability giving her W a passive defense and magic resist bonus OR % damage reduction that scales with hp would allow her to be as naturally beefy as the other more effective tanks while keeping her what she is.

All of this being said, I still find my initial suggestions to be great ones, but I do like thinking of other possible great ones


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Amaerginn

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Junior Member

11-04-2012

What I don't understand about Sejuani is why her base movespeed is among the slowest in the game. Her entire kit only works if she's able to catch up to a champion, and I find that over and over her slow is so measly that even with the passive, people are able to simply outrun me. It's incredibly frustrating. Her broken kit does not work in real situations.

She's also very squishy, has terrible jungle clear times, and very subpar damage. I was really excited when this champion came out, but I retired her after only a week or so. She's worse than similar CC/tanky junglers by a large margin. Think Nautilus or Leona. MUCH better champions with similar playstyles.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

11-04-2012

300+boots2=370
330+boots2=400-10%=360

its not that its heavy imo, it just does its job. phage is 2 seconds, her mark when fixed should last 3 unmodified by tenacity... plus phage is a 25% chance. ideally it should be a 1 second difference when phage actually does poc.

this is where i disagree, adding armor or a sustain will only encourage straight forward i am an armord damage soak play which is not what she is but she will get something for the new jungle. i just hope its simple hp/5 or as buff leaving buffs for mobility to separate her from amumu and the like.


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

11-05-2012

Well if the idea is making her the unique mobility tank, then I would like to see her have a damage upgrade and cooldown reduction, HP ratio on winds would be my hope, buff it to 3% at max but still start it at 1%.

Her 315 movement speed is decent, but you often have to use your dash to catch them and save your E to keep them close for your ADC. Her CC + mobility are not good enough for her to be both the least damage soak tank and least damage dealing tank.

HP alone does not make a tank. 5000 HP is far less useful than 3000 HP and 100 Armor and 100 MR, which has an effective 6000 HP against magic and normal damage. Plus 3000 HP makes your heal, HP/5, and pots way more effective since it increases your effective HP far more. But if you build that way then your W does less damage, and is already low.

Just my opinion. Also, I'd argue that E is not very good for an escape/survival mechanic, R yes, but no to E because you have to turn and hit them, then pop E and run. If you're running and turn to hit them chances are you're dead. If winds applied frost however, then you'd be far more effective.

Edit: My hope is not necessarily for a bruiser or super damage soak tank, or even for the super mobility tank. My hope is for an effective champion. One that assists more in the swing of battle. Sejuani is not a tide turner, she doesn't carry, she doesn't 1v1. She simply has initial CC, a little AOE, then runs for the next fight or dies trying. If your team is not even or ahead, the initiations don't do much unless the enemy over extends. Perhaps if everyone was on ventrillo and you could yell when you're popping your ult so everyone could spring on the enemy, but short of that your team must react immediately, because in 1 sec 4 of the enemy are back under their own control and 1 is only 1 second behind. And the slow from E only means they can't run very fast, but why would they run, they know that they all took a little damage and now are 5v4.5 since Sejuani won't do damage to them. That slow means nothing since they're trying to burst down your ADC.

So I don't care if it is tankier, bruisier, or mobilitier, she just needs to be more effective in helping your team determine the outcome of a game. Other Junglers do this throughout the whole game, not just in the lane/ganking phase. Right now I use Diana to jungle because she is just as tanky as Sejuani with her shield (which becomes tankier with more AP which gives her more damage), she is just as mobile with her ult jump, she has a small AOE pull, and with frozen mallet she trumps Sejuani's passive in both effect strength and in speed at which is delivers since she has twice the attack speed. And if the game calls for it, I can build her straight damage instead of off-tank. Sejuani doesn't have this choice.


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FMI

Senior Member

11-05-2012

I think E and the passive should be unlinked.
The passive should be buffed to stack and reduce attack speed, E should be made more targeted (maybe in a cone?) and its damage buffed by hitting enemies with frost.