An assesment of new TT map with Sam, I want YOUR feedback

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NismoDOMA

Junior Member

10-28-2012

HI Everyone! My name is NismoDOMA, and I know some of you senior and junior members are thinking: Who the hell is this kid? My answer is; just a nobody who wants to try his best understanding an issue from an unbiased standpoint. Luckily, I am a nobody with a very good friend name Sam I have made some videos concerning the new Twisted Treeline with Sam:
New TT Commentary Feat. Sam Part 1
New TT Commentary Feat. Sam Part 2: Snowballing and more!

In the video we try to assess the positives and the changes Riot has worked hard bringing to the table. However, the TT forums have been hot about the complete change to the familiar map they have known for years. People are simply not happy with the change due from a typical QQ'ing to well thought out analysis on the mechanics of the new map. Obviously, the people who put thought into their analysis had me wondering what the map really brings to the huge group of 3v3 players. The common issues I've seen in numerous threads concerns Snowballing, Jungling, Altars, and Champion Pool. In the first video, I've addressed Sam about Jungling and the Altars, while in the second video we assessed Snowballing and comparing it to the old TT a little. I want to hear feedback from all of you, the players, on not only the video, but what YOU have seen in the new TT (the positives and the negatives you have seen). Please, feel free to post your perspective on this issue!

PS: Although I did say feel free to post, please keep your post concise and well thought out! Doesn't have to be long, but simple QQ will get us nowhere! Remember, Arguing and simple name calling are two different things, so I do welcome debates among members please keep it civil.
PSS: Subscribe on my channel and let me know there on what you else would like to see/discussed on the channel! Thanks!


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fiddlesticksssss

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Where as this is a good map, its not good enough in my opinion to replace twisted treeline. Also the competitiveness of twisted treeline doesn't matter at all since it has (and with the new maps problems currently) won't have a competitive scene. So splitting the community is riots least concern, since a high majority so far on forums has quit, QQed, or 2,000+ signs on wanting the old TT back. I personally don't like the speed of it, because games end WAAAY to quickly before i can even enjoy them, so now i no longer say "wow what a great game that was pretty freakin close," to "GG wp, wow that game was quick, better hurry up and farm for 6300 from these 10 minute games". I have seen more quitters / ragers on this map than i have in season 1 TT (pre season 1 it was a lot worse) and its mainly because SR players don't like it even more now because it its a completely new concept, and Twisted Treeline players don't like it because they want to play a less "slaughter fest" map than this. Sam is a good player, but he also doesn't get to decide what the community wants. Just my personal opinion. (Unless he has dirt on riot).


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PrinceVert

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlesticksssss View Post
Where as this is a good map, its not good enough in my opinion to replace twisted treeline. Also the competitiveness of twisted treeline doesn't matter at all since it has (and with the new maps problems currently) won't have a competitive scene. So splitting the community is riots least concern, since a high majority so far on forums has quit, QQed, or 2,000+ signs on wanting the old TT back. I personally don't like the speed of it, because games end WAAAY to quickly before i can even enjoy them, so now i no longer say "wow what a great game that was pretty freakin close," to "GG wp, wow that game was quick, better hurry up and farm for 6300 from these 10 minute games". I have seen more quitters / ragers on this map than i have in season 1 TT (pre season 1 it was a lot worse) and its mainly because SR players don't like it even more now because it its a completely new concept, and Twisted Treeline players don't like it because they want to play a less "slaughter fest" map than this. Sam is a good player, but he also doesn't get to decide what the community wants. Just my personal opinion. (Unless he has dirt on riot).
This, who the **** think that Sam he is to decide WHAT is what we want as a community because I don't remember him asking us feedback about this unholy map.


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

10-28-2012

I do not believe Sam is unbiased.

He is right that Ebonmaw was ridiculous, but my low elo games were not decided by who took dragon first, I cannot speak for the rarefied heights of his elo. However, my games on TT2 are decided by who wins a teamfight at 5 minutes, and I have seen other plat players say the same. I do not see that as an improvement.


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NismoDOMA

Junior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlesticksssss View Post
I personally don't like the speed of it, because games end WAAAY to quickly before i can even enjoy them, so now i no longer say "wow what a great game that was pretty freakin close," to "GG wp, wow that game was quick, better hurry up and farm for 6300 from these 10 minute games". I have seen more quitters / ragers on this map than i have in season 1 TT (pre season 1 it was a lot worse) and its mainly because SR players don't like it even more now because it its a completely new concept, and Twisted Treeline players don't like it because they want to play a less "slaughter fest" map than this.
I do see what you mean by ending wayyy too soon. I didn't see it as much as when I watched Sam play multple matches on 3v3, but then again the people he is paired with aren't as willing to surrender, ragequit, etc. BUT, the majority of the players (Me included) see games ending fast because of the early game lead (the game I tried 3v3 was fun, but it only lasted under 20 min and the other team surrendered). This is why i wanted the feedback from you guys as well, the postiives i saw from talking with Sam is one thing, I know not everybody will experiences the same things so I want to hear the negatives typical players face in their own matches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlesticksssss View Post
Sam is a good player, but he also doesn't get to decide what the community wants. Just my personal opinion. (Unless he has dirt on riot).
I WHOLEHEARTEDLY can say this with confidence, the point of the video was to assess the map, not determine what the community wants. Again, this is why i am here with the thread wanting to hear from everyone so that I can address this issue again in a future video. I just want to understand this from another perspective.

Thank you for your feedback fiddle, hope to hear from you if you have more!


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NismoDOMA

Junior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceVert View Post
This, who the **** think that Sam he is to decide WHAT is what we want as a community because I don't remember him asking us feedback about this unholy map.
Sam's intentions weren't to decide what the community wants, it's his opinions and reflect his own analysis. As far as asking for feedback, this is partly why I am collaborating with him because I want to hear from everyone, these two videos are his two cents. Now this thread exists so we can hear YOURS. Don't get it twisted, remember we all have the same love for league, that means me, you, sam, and the League community wants whats best for the game they love.


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Exqzr

Senior Member

10-28-2012

O.k.

I watched both videos.

First, let me say this. Sam (and co.), I appreciate what you are trying to do.

You want the community to stay together and "get along". Well, so do I.

It would seem however that we are going about it in different ways. You, represent an elite core of 3 v 3ers. Less than 1/10th of 1%. Yes, that's right. The HIGH ELO, competitive player.

Great. Except guess what. Even your own, very small community (the sub community of the majority of us) doesn't agree with you.

I represent the "common man". The average casual player. I think I speak for most of them when I say this...

Are you (politely) f***ing serious?

I'm not buying it. You're whole second video is all about how the new map does not snowball like the old, when you proceed to go 22 and 4 in 25 minutes???

OMG. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time!

That GAME, if you can call it that was OVER at 6:02. Actually no, it was OVER before that. BUT for sure I could call it at 6:02. So could you and ANYONE who watched it.

I mean once you got the ALTARS, you just facerolled Darius and pretty much their whole team AT WILL.

IT wasn't fun to watch, I can't believe you had FUN playing that game. TO BE HONEST, the whole thing seemed completely pointless after the first blood.

That entire game was a HYPER SNOWBALL from start to finish. Makes the "Snowball" in the Classic TT seem more like a Snow FLAKE.

Again, I APPRECIATE what you are trying to do for the community, but where is your credibility?.

Please answer honestly... If RIOT hadjust made a few TWEAKS to the CLASSIC map, you know the ones you and all of us argued for months to get? Would that not have been WAY PREFERABLE to a totally different map? This... This... ADD fiasco with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and for me, uncomfortable play style?

My GOD, you didn't even have to pay attention during that game. You just wandered around and STOMPED STOMPED STOMPED for 25 minutes. Just painful to watch AND NOT FUN OR ENTERTAINING IN ANY WAY.

Did Riot solve some problems with this new map? Well, yeah, they did. But they created a whole other 7 headed Hydra with WAY MORE problems than the what we encountered in the CLASSIC TT.

Fine, WHATEVER, bring on the new map. Kudos to Riot for doing it and If you truly like it better, GREAT! ENJOY!

But don't destroy what thousands of loyal customers love and play everyday in the process. That's just RUDE.

BOTH maps. Let us decide. Even you, after this obvious sell out, can at least advocate for CHOICE.











Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoDOMA View Post
HI Everyone! My name is NismoDOMA, and I know some of you senior and junior members are thinking: Who the hell is this kid? My answer is; just a nobody who wants to try his best understanding an issue from an unbiased standpoint. Luckily, I am a nobody with a very good friend name Sam I have made some videos concerning the new Twisted Treeline with Sam:
New TT Commentary Feat. Sam Part 1
New TT Commentary Feat. Sam Part 2: Snowballing and more!

In the video we try to assess the positives and the changes Riot has worked hard bringing to the table. However, the TT forums have been hot about the complete change to the familiar map they have known for years. People are simply not happy with the change due from a typical QQ'ing to well thought out analysis on the mechanics of the new map. Obviously, the people who put thought into their analysis had me wondering what the map really brings to the huge group of 3v3 players. The common issues I've seen in numerous threads concerns Snowballing, Jungling, Altars, and Champion Pool. In the first video, I've addressed Sam about Jungling and the Altars, while in the second video we assessed Snowballing and comparing it to the old TT a little. I want to hear feedback from all of you, the players, on not only the video, but what YOU have seen in the new TT (the positives and the negatives you have seen). Please, feel free to post your perspective on this issue!

PS: Although I did say feel free to post, please keep your post concise and well thought out! Doesn't have to be long, but simple QQ will get us nowhere! Remember, Arguing and simple name calling are two different things, so I do welcome debates among members please keep it civil.
PSS: Subscribe on my channel and let me know there on what you else would like to see/discussed on the channel! Thanks!


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NismoDOMA

Junior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoDOMA View Post
Sam's intentions weren't to decide what the community wants, it's his opinions and reflect his own analysis. As far as asking for feedback, this is partly why I am collaborating with him because I want to hear from everyone, these two videos are his two cents. Now this thread exists so we can hear YOURS. Don't get it twisted, remember we all have the same love for league, that means me, you, sam, and the League community wants whats best for the game they love.
EDIT: And as in unbiased, i was refering to me lol


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fiddlesticksssss

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoDOMA View Post
I WHOLEHEARTEDLY can say this with confidence, the point of the video was to assess the map, not determine what the community wants. Again, this is why i am here with the thread wanting to hear from everyone so that I can address this issue again in a future video. I just want to understand this from another perspective.

Thank you for your feedback fiddle, hope to hear from you if you have more!
I understand what your videos are about, and they are interesting. Its on forums where he is deciding if it stays or goes. In 1 thread he says "people hate change but the majority of us want twisted treeline gone" where as when i see forums a majority of it wants it to stay. He was right on some points, but wrong about snowballing on old TT. Snowballing only occurred in normals, and even then snowballing occurs on SR, the "perfect' map that is decided if a champion gets nerfed or buffed. In a ranked game, if you seriously made the same mistakes over and over again, didn't buy wards to counter the fed jungler, and didn't try to play as a team. You deserved to lose those "snowballing" games. In his high of elo, i would assume lee sin was a perma ban, because that is almost a "i win champion" some would say. So snowballing on old TT, as far as i could see in ranked, was almost non existent. Turtling was a serious problem, and i myself did exploit it by playing skarner to win games. This is easily fixed with the new healing pools in Si, and can easily make old Twisted Treeline almost fixed "Jungling camps would need work" and it is pretty much the map Old Twisted Treeline players complained about. Wards were actually far to big, but riot could of fixed that at any time, and still can. In my opinion Shivering Isles is in no way a map that will suffice in replacing Twisted Treeline.

Edit: I do agree with riots decision to remove GA, bloodthirster, and Warmogs though. Those items were EXTREMELY way to powerful.

Edit 2: What i meant by games ending way to quickly is that, games would turn on a dime of who wins or loses depending on if you fight for altars at 1:45 or later. FB and 2nd altar cap alone, can create a huge lead. You got a free global gold of 160 gold + w/e kills are worth, and now someone just bought van dam's pillager, or HoG, max boots, and 2 longswords, or w/e they are playing. From that point forward your whole team is running on 4 gold per minion kill. With my normal team we average of about 150~ at 20 minutes if it goes that long. So 4 gold per minion kills is 600 global gold. Now that doesn't seem like a lot? That is 600 free gold from doing nothing. That isn't including us winning altar fights and keeping the buff away from them. They will cap it from time to time, but we do move the moment it opens in 90 seconds to reclaim it. It can happen vice versa too. So this encourages snowballing and turtling all together. Some teams are in a mind set to just instant surrender, because we have 5 fully built items while they have 3 (this is a majority of my triple queue teams). In solo queue a team might hold on, but since turtling doesn't exist, snowballing only exists alone giving nothing to counter it. So they won't be coming back, as long as we don't sit there farming the same 9 jungle camps over and over. That is what i mean by games ending to quickly.


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NismoDOMA

Junior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post
O.k.

I watched both videos.

First, let me say this. Sam (and co.), I appreciate what you are trying to do.

You want the community to stay together and "get along". Well, so do I.

It would seem however that we are going about it in different ways. You, represent an elite core of 3 v 3ers. Less than 1/10th of 1%. Yes, that's right. The HIGH ELO, competitive player.
Which is why I am here. I am not exactly Plat... I am just here to assess different point of views. But thank you for acknowledging everyone has a common goal, but there is going to be differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post
I'm not buying it. You're whole second video is all about how the new map does not snowball like the old, when you proceed to go 22 and 4 in 25 minutes???

OMG. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time!

That GAME, if you can call it that was OVER at 6:02. Actually no, it was OVER before that. BUT for sure I could call it at 6:02. So could you and ANYONE who watched it.

That entire game was a HYPER SNOWBALL from start to finish. Makes the "Snowball" in the Classic TT seem more like a Snow FLAKE.
http://www.twitch.tv/sam/b/336872256 this was the video of the comeback against a fed teemo, this is what he was talking about as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post
Again, I APPRECIATE what you are trying to do for the community, but where is your credibility?.
My credibility? My credibility lies with the fact that I am willing to question my friend and am willing to see from the majorities perspective, and how this game effects US lower elo community. I am a nobody who just wants to learn and understand views of this issue and more and at least try to offer a hand with what ever power I can to inform whoever is willing to listen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post
Please answer honestly... If RIOT hadjust made a few TWEAKS to the CLASSIC map, you know the ones you and all of us argued for months to get? Would that not have been WAY PREFERABLE to a totally different map? This... This... ADD fiasco with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and for me, uncomfortable play style?

Did Riot solve some problems with this new map? Well, yeah, they did. But they created a whole other 7 headed Hydra with WAY MORE problems than the what we encountered in the CLASSIC TT.
...
But don't destroy what thousands of loyal customers love and play everyday in the process. That's just RUDE.
BOTH maps. Let us decide. Even you, after this obvious sell out, can at least advocate for CHOICE.
Clarify sell out, I haven't sold my soul to the Illuminati yet lol :P I never advocated that this should be that, it may have seemed like that in the video and thank you for your feedback. I will correct this mistake in the future, for it does not reflect my true beliefs. And of course, I know there are problems. For all i know its a MORE than a 7 headed Hydra, something higher elos don't see, but what casual players see. Nothing is ever perfect, but not everybody sees the some of the good or the imperfections.