@RIOT Please Help Ashe

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Yhufir

Senior Member

10-28-2012

So, I have to admit that I'm a huge fan of Ashe and most AD carrys. I try, whenever I can, to play Ashe precisely because of her utility. However I have run in to a few problems and, like some of you, believe she needs a rework of some kind. Mainly, the issue with Ashe is that she does not scale as well as other ADCs and that her Main Passive and her Hawk-Shot (active and/or passive) need some kind of tweak. This has been widely acknowledged by the community.

Please dont post useless argumentative statements, like "Tier S Ranged carries r not geting reworks get real kid, look at the other champs." or "Ashe is a cheap champ designed so that you can get the IP to get more powerful expensive champs, she is also easy (as far as carries go) which means low risk and low reward. My advice use the IP from game s u played with her to get a higher tier champ (Vayne, even Ezreal)." I've already addressed those issues here.

After reading several other people posting similar ideas I wanted to come up with a semi-comprehensive list of possible solutions to the Ashe problem:

  • -Swap her Passive for her E alt. passive. (ie. Her passive scales at some interval, but her critical chance is scaled on lvl)
  • -Allow the passive to increase until a critical strike is made (ie. Crit Chance grows by _% until a crit strike, then the crit chance starts at 0 again, increasing until the next crit strikes).
  • -Allow passive to increase to a point as long as Ashe is auto-attacking. After _ seconds without attacking the crit chance resets.
  • -Give the Volley (W) a slight push-back effect, within the AoE. (The push-back range could be the complete distance of W or even as little as 1/3 W to be effective).
  • -Make the Hawk-Shot (E - Activated) invisible to enemy team - OR - Make the direction of fire from E invisible but the splash remains visible to enemy team.
  • -Move the E passive to Q (as passive) so the extra gold will only accumulate when Q isn't active. This may leave E open for an additional passive or a slight rework of it's own.
  • -Scale the time on Hawk-Shot (E). Decreasing Cool-Down per level or Duration of Vision increase.
  • -Change Hawk-Shot to an On-Hit Effect of Vision (ie. If you hit someone with Hawk-Shot, you are granted vision of that champion for X amount of time).
  • -Add a small splash effect to Frost-Shot (Q).
  • -Allow Volley to pass through enemy units -OR- Allow Volley to pass through a small number of enemy units (like 1-2 units with diminishing dmg effects).
  • -Hawkshot (E) Active-Reveals a targeted area and all stealthed enemies for X seconds. Revealed targets become marked as long as they remain in the area and for 3 seconds after leaving.
  • -New passive, while in combat Ashe gains +10 range on every basic attack and volley, stacks up to 10 times, last 5 seconds.
  • -Ashe's abilities apply a mark/stack of _% crit chance against that target. Further abilites used on the same target increase the mark/stacks of crit chance up to a _% max. After a crit strike, the mark/stacks reset.

My goal here is to raise awareness of this problem and hopefully help RIOT understand that this is something the community does want addressed. Please feel free to contribute your own thoughts or ideas and I will attempt to include them in the list.


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Yhufir

Senior Member

10-29-2012

bump


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KesslerCOIL

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Senior Member

10-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhufir View Post
  • -Swap her Passive for her E alt. passive. (ie. Her passive scales at some interval, but her critical chance is scaled on lvl)
  • -Allow the passive to increase until a critical strike is made (ie. Crit Chance grows by _% until a crit strike, then the crit chance starts at 0 again, increasing until the next crit strikes).
The first change could be interesting, it could allow her to get more farm earlier.

The second change has always been what ive asked for, her passive discourages last hitting so you can get a crit on the enemy. Simply making it only reset on a successful crit is an amazing idea and would improve her horrible early game.


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Beaumains

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Ashe's abilities are fine the way they are, overall. I would prefer that Volley was a series of 5-7 piercing (completely) skill shots, as Varus seems to have a more Volley-like volley than Ashe's "Volley" - but Riot could just as easily rename Volley and call it MultiShot and fix that complaint.

Her passive is rather slow, and feels non-existant at times; I think a good, easy, balanced fix would be to charge it per second rather than every 3 seconds, so that she'd actually have a decent chance to crit without having to wait a literal minute (for 60% crit chance @ L1).

The problem is that ash also has to last-hit, and those come up about every 5 seconds in lane phase. If that would really create bigger problems late game, then consider re-scaling the charge to start higher and end lower (while stacking by the second).


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Nykidemus

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Having her crit not get used on a non-crit minion last hit would make things worlds better. Having the crit only reset if she shot a champ would be fine too (to make it so that only the first hit on a champ was a crit, rather than a string of them.)

She's also slow as hell, has no escapes, is incredibly squishy, and doesnt really have any damage-enhancing effects in her kit other than her passive. She doesnt duel well, she doesnt farm especially well, she doesnt harass well, she can chase IF she's already frost-shot the target, but she cant catch people to save her life.

It used to be that that was all worth it, because Crystal Arrow was amazing - but since it got nerfed a dozen times, it's barely worth using.

I've always like Ashe, and I'd love to see her playable again.


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THE FECKFACE

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhufir View Post
So, I have to admit that I'm a huge fan of Ashe and most AD carrys. I try, whenever I can, to play Ashe precisely because of her utility. However I have run in to a few problems and, like some of you, believe she needs a rework of some kind. Mainly, the issue with Ashe is that she does not scale as well as other ADCs and that her Main Passive and her Hawk-Shot (active and/or passive) need some kind of tweak. This has been widely acknowledged by the community.
  • -Swap her Passive for her E alt. passive. (ie. Her passive scales at some interval, but her critical chance is scaled on lvl)
  • -Allow the passive to increase until a critical strike is made (ie. Crit Chance grows by _% until a crit strike, then the crit chance starts at 0 again, increasing until the next crit strikes).
  • -Give the Volley (W) a slight push-back effect, within the AoE. (The push-back range could be the complete distance of W or even as little as 1/3 W to be effective).
  • -Make the Hawk-Shot (E - Activated) invisible to enemy team - OR - Make the direction of fire from E invisible but the splash remains visible to enemy team.
  • -Move the E passive to Q (as passive) so the extra gold will only accumulate when Q isn't active. This may leave E open for an additional passive or a slight rework of it's own.
  • -Scale the time on Hawk-Shot (E). Decreasing Cool-Down per level or Duration of Vision increase.
  • -Change Hawk-Shot to an On-Hit Effect of Vision (ie. If you hit someone with Hawk-Shot, you are granted vision of that champion for X amount of time).
  • -Add a small splash effect to Frost-Shot (Q).
  • -Allow Volley to pass through enemy units -OR- Allow Volley to pass through a small number of enemy units (like 1-2 units with diminishing dmg effects).
Push back on W, no thanks.

1, it would make catching her IMPOSSIBLE. A 4 second cd slow / push back? 2, I would rather not push away enemies I'm trying to catch. I could alter game play to not use it when chasing, but I'd rather not.

The volley doesn't need to pass through units, it's an effective poke as it is.

Splash to frost shot? No, she already has an aoe slow with volley. I'm not saying you're suggesting it be a big splash, but if you really want to, you can just swap targets. Wouldn't always work, but I think Q and W are fine.

A rework of her passive / Hawk Shot I would be in favour of. Late game her passive doesn't make that much of a difference. When you have IE and Phantom Dancer, 1 crit to open a fight isn't that big of a difference, when you're already likely to crit anyway.


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Nykidemus

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Volley hasnt been good poke in lane in years. It pushes the lane like whoa, and everyone knows to just hide behind creeps. It's not like Ez Q where if you miss you just miss - if you miss it wrecks the whole front row of creeps. Even if you HIT it probably wrecks the front row.


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Kaalika

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Or, make hawkshot a hawk that descends on the target area and if it finds an enemy attempts to peck it's eyes out, doing a small amount of damage and granting sight of the area for a few seconds.

If hawkshot was a champion-specific skillshot with a small landing circle that would give her an early game poke that doesn't wreck the lane.

Compared to later ADC champs she still needs an escape, but giving her a true poke would help early game a lot. Not sure the gold passive would be needed then.


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Yhufir

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaalika View Post
Or, make hawkshot a hawk that descends on the target area and if it finds an enemy attempts to peck it's eyes out, doing a small amount of damage and granting sight of the area for a few seconds.

If hawkshot was a champion-specific skillshot with a small landing circle that would give her an early game poke that doesn't wreck the lane.

Compared to later ADC champs she still needs an escape, but giving her a true poke would help early game a lot. Not sure the gold passive would be needed then.
I think we can sum this up more like:
"Hawkshot, in addition to granting sight, does a small amount of damage in AoE."

I'm not a huge fan of the idea, personally, but it is a new one for the list. I like the idea of Hawkshot being a homing-type skill. Something like, "Hawkshot follows and grants sight of the nearest enemy champion for up to X seconds or Y distance."

I'll probly throw these up on the OP soon but I want to get a few more ideas before updating.

Thx!


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Neutron Magnetar

Junior Member

11-12-2012

I think she needs a total rework i used to use her all the time and got a skin for her i liked her so much but now shes just meh only 2 dmging abilities and only 1 of those scale with dmg along with a useless passive heres some ideas you might find intresting

- Passive: Apply frost every 3-5 hits depending on level (this will allow her to slow but not use all her mana in the process)

- Passive: Every X hits Ashe does X% more dmg to her target (keep it low like 3 hits for 10% more dmg)

Long Shot- same idea as Varus' volly but only hits champs, doesnt slow and has a smaller AOE

Trick Shot- kinda like MFs double up but more of a ricochet effect

Pin Down- does damage and roots the target for a short time

Hawk Scout- Summons a hawk that lasts for x seconds (good for actual scouting not 3 secs of vision that can be easily avoided)

Keen Senses: applied to enemy champs to increase passive effect (i.e. more slow or larger amount of extra damage) passively increases sight range