Why do people think Elise is a bruiser?

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BloodWorth

Senior Member

10-28-2012

At first i played her ap glass cannon didnt like it at all. Then tried AP bruiser I lived longer but still felt like my damage was low. Now I play her AD bruiser. My last two ranked games 3v3 (1258 elo sorry im not pro) I went 9-3-12 and 7-1-7.

Human form; Her Q still does damage W gets weaker as the game goes on E is always helpful.

Spider: Q Love it goes good with tri force proc. W Once again awesome with AD. E once you learn to use to really good to escape/gap close you will love this skill. Also, alot of people dont understand how it works and sometimes all you can do is go up then down... saddly it jukes alot of people.


Edit in: I think she is alot like Nid. Some people love her AP and some people only play her AD. Once people stop telling each other how to player her and realize this I think we can get onto some good builds.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malgana View Post
She has 1 attack speed steroid, and an ult that grants magic damage on hit. If anything I could see people building her on-hit, but why waste her entire human form skill side and build straight bruiser?
By doing that if you switch to human at any point you're basically gimping yourself for 4 seconds.

I'm not saying bruiser/AD isn't viable on her, it can obviously work, but it just seems like a lot of wasted potential to me.

Also inb4 "I'm master cheef lololol" bs, can we ban this guy already?
Due to her percentage based scaling, building AP on her doesn't equate to burst; it gives her sustained damage. So her only outcome is that she is a sustained damage champ.

Then you have to consider that she deals the massive bulk of her damage while in spider form and with spiderlings. Then you have to consider that she is in melee range while doing this. In terms of sustained damage, AD will always trump AP; but what makes AD better in this scenario is that it's much easier to build tanky DPS with an AD build than with an AP build.

Her biggest problem is that she can't function as a mage because her human form Q, the only spell she can feasibly spam, deals successively less damage the more you use it on the same target.

For instance, if at 400 AP I were to land Elise's human form Q on a 2k health target at full health, the total damage going out would be 550. The next would hit for 462, then 388, then 326, then 273, then the target would finally be dead, assuming they had zero MR.

So a 2k health target with zero MR would need 5 casts of her Q at 400 AP to die.
What happens if that target has 100 MR to counter build you? It now takes 10 casts at 400 AP to kill a 2k health target.

The end result is that she's a terrible burst mage as well as a terrible sustained mage in human form. Her human form is a mess.

So the reason people are going with a bruiser build is because Elise can only deal sustained damage and AD sustained damage is more reliable. ArP also boosts her spiderling damage.


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67chrome

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malgana View Post
Why waste her entire human form skill side and build straight bruiser?
By doing that if you switch to human at any point you're basically gimping yourself for 4 seconds.
Because in the current meta Melee Range = Bruiser. Look at how "assassins" like Nocturne build. Bruiser. Or "melee carries" like Gangplank. Bruisers. Or hybrids like Nidalee and Jayce. Still considered Bruisers. Basically, if a champion has melee range, they are considered a bruiser.

It's annoying really, and cuts a lot of diversity out of melee champions. For the most part Bruisers win in 1v1s though, so the lane with a melee champion is likely going to be dominated by a bruiser. As it stands the jungle can only really supplement defensive builds as well, gimping the potential of offensively orientated champions to perform reliably there. So of the two lanning positions most melee appear in you're significantly hampered by the lanning phase.


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FistOf7Dragons

Senior Member

10-28-2012

becuase if you don''t build like bruiser you wont be able to do anything (ei get in close since you will die)


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Malgana

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Repentant Angel View Post
because her skills do percent damage so it isnt worth investing 300 ap to get aaround a 4% damage increase on 2 skills while she is super squishy spider mode and HAS to get in close where she effectively enters a bruisers dominion. So in order to survive this she needs SOME survivability. Though i agree having an item like malady on her really make her shines.
But it's not just "4% damage" it's 4% of the dudes HP.
By the time you Q+W him then hit him with a lich bane proc he should be near death, thus there being MUCH less risk of you dying when you jump on him in spider for the kill.

Of course you can't jump into the middle of the enemy team in a team fight, but you wont need to if you can just get someone low enough for an ally to finish off then sit back tossing out chunks of damage until you feel safe enough to jump in.


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Malgana

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
Because in the current meta Melee Range = Bruiser. Look at how "assassins" like Nocturne build. Bruiser. Or "melee carries" like Gangplank. Bruisers. Or hybrids like Nidalee and Jayce. Still considered Bruisers. Basically, if a champion has melee range, they are considered a bruiser.

It's annoying really, and cuts a lot of diversity out of melee champions. For the most part Bruisers win in 1v1s though, so the lane with a melee champion is likely going to be dominated by a bruiser. As it stands the jungle can only really supplement defensive builds as well, gimping the potential of offensively orientated champions to perform reliably there. So of the two lanning positions most melee appear in you're significantly hampered by the lanning phase.
But she's not a bruiser until you press R...this is what I'm not understanding lol.
It's like people think she's locked in spider form, when you should really only be using it to finish people off.


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somewhere

Senior Member

10-28-2012

i can see that. she has high base damage but poor scaling. so building magic pen + tanky makes sense.


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Diagnosis

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Nidalee has one AD ratio. Her Q.

She's still a better AD bruiser than she is AP unless they revert the heal nerfs.


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Tutskii

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Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malgana View Post
She has 1 attack speed steroid, and an ult that grants magic damage on hit. If anything I could see people building her on-hit, but why waste her entire human form skill side and build straight bruiser?
By doing that if you switch to human at any point you're basically gimping yourself for 4 seconds.

I'm not saying bruiser/AD isn't viable on her, it can obviously work, but it just seems like a lot of wasted potential to me.

Also inb4 "I'm master cheef lololol" bs, can we ban this guy already?
Because they badly want elise to do something but she sorta doesn't do anything atm other than look cool.


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Marokei

Member

10-28-2012

I have done just fine in mid lane. I have found that getting a Rylais + Revolver on her make you extremely hard to kill, while also being able to duel most mid lane champions. The people crying about her "poor" scaling just have no clue how to effectively use the champion. She isn't weak, give it time.