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I'm an agnostic atheist; ask me anything!

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Kodoku

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
if atheism is to not be mutually exclusive of agnosticism then atheism cannot be based on knowledge and must be a belief held completely irrespective of the facts and of reality. One cannot support or back up his beliefs in any factual manner.


No, nothing of this sort follows from anything that has been established.

One could know that God does not exist, but erroneously believe that such knowledge is impossible.
One could believe that God does not exist, have reasons for doing so that are well grounded in reality and fact, but believe such reasons fall short of the justification necessary for knowledge.


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Elan Tedronai

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Kodoku:
One could know that God does not exist, but erroneously believe that such knowledge is impossible.

Under what circumstances could this be the case? Come up with a hypothetical for me.
Quote:
Kodoku:
One could believe that God does not exist, have reasons for doing so that are well grounded in reality and fact, but believe such reasons fall short of the justification necessary for knowledge.

Something cannot be grounded in fact yet fall short of the justification for knowledge. Sure, something can be grounded in a demonstration of reality and fall short of knowledge. (A guy in a ski mask with a gun in his hand standing over my dead wife with a gun shot wound is guilty through evident demonstration of reality. It falls short of knowledge because he could always wear a ski mask due to light sensitivity and that he walked in on the scene and picked up the gun out of stupid curiosity.)


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Kodoku

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Under what circumstances could this be the case? Come up with a hypothetical for me.
One could have a simple and decisive proof (a reductio, let's say) that God does not exist, believe that God does not exist, but nonetheless believe that the proof doesn't settle the matter and that in fact the matter could never be settled.

Quote:
Something cannot be grounded in fact yet fall short of the justification for knowledge. Sure, something can be grounded in a demonstration of reality and fall short of knowledge. (A guy in a ski mask with a gun in his hand standing over my dead wife with a gun shot wound is guilty through evident demonstration of reality. It falls short of knowledge because he could always wear a ski mask due to light sensitivity and that he walked in on the scene and picked up the gun out of stupid curiosity.)
Semantics. The point was merely that the belief could be very much informed by the facts, in contrast to your previous claim:
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then atheism cannot be based on knowledge and must be a belief held completely irrespective of the facts and of reality.
Surely the belief that the masked, armed man standing over the corpse is the killer is not a belief that's "held completely irrespective of the facts and of reality", yet this would be an example of such a scenario where one could have a reasonable belief that isn't an instance of knowledge.


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Horse Sized Duck

Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Elan Tedronai:
Agnosticism and atheism are mutually exclusive. One cannot be both.

inb4 people who don't actually know what atheism is

Actually, agnosticism and atheism are NOT mutually exclusive. You seem to think atheism is the "belief" there is no god. This is not true. That would be a GNOSTIC atheist.


Agnosticism and gnosticism are opposites.

Atheism and theism are opposites.


You can be one of the top two, and one of the bottom two.


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Reconsul

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Horse Sized Duck:
You seem to think atheism is the "belief" there is no god. This is not true. That would be a GNOSTIC atheist.
No, that's agnostic atheism. Gnostic atheism is knowing there is no god.


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Quision

Member

11-14-2012

Lol, their's agnostic atheism, gnostic athiesm, agnostic theism, and probably gnostic theism as well.


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Horse Sized Duck

Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Reconsul:
No, that's agnostic atheism. Gnostic atheism is knowing there is no god.


Um no, that is not agnostic atheism. Agnostic atheism is "I don't believe in a god, but I don't know if there is one." Gnostic atheism is "I don't believe in god, in fact, I believe there is no god."


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DaedricChampion

Senior Member

11-14-2012

im pretty sure youre just atheist. Can't be agnostic if you outright reject the existance of a god. Agnostics neither confirm nor deny God


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Reconsul

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Horse Sized Duck:
Agnostic atheism is "I don't believe in a god, but I don't know if there is one."
Yes.
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Horse Sized Duck:

Agnosticism and gnosticism are opposites.
So when i said:
Quote:
Reconsul:
Gnostic atheism is knowing there is no god.
Was accurate.

Quote:
Horse Sized Duck:
Gnostic atheism is "I don't believe in god, in fact, I believe there is no god."
You can believe something that is false, so that's not the opposite of uncertain.


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Dig Imaptpie

Recruiter

11-14-2012

has your religion granted you the power to why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?