Elise, a viable top laner

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TySRT4

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PvPretender View Post
@TySRT4

I read your whole post, and it was quite informative. However, the main problem with it is that it assumes that you have a full build. Most ranked games *I only play ranked*, tend to end somewhere between 20-40 minutes. In order to complete a build like that, you would not only have to have the cs for it, but also a fair amount of kills and assists. While assists are easy to achieve as this champion, kills are not. Therefore we have to assume a lower amount of ap. But the reality of the fact is, this champion is less dependent on ability power at all, as her spider form and % damage abilities are basically the bread and butter of her kit.
I'm aware of this, and again you still build her tanky AP. You have to remember... she's never going to be a Ryze, or Cass, or Viegar... she's there to whittle down HP... then burst down in spider form. You will outlast the enemy, and you will be useful in team fights when your E just let's you drop in on the carry. Nothing they can do about it.

She's a high skill cap champ, she's not for everyone. She's in a good position, maybe she could use a few slight buffs, but only QoL buffs like animations to her auto attack in human form or something of that line. Also her E is a little... buggy at times in spider form. It needs to be like rengar where when dropping down auto-attacks the champ and is directly on them. Other than that... she's just a different kind of champ people aren't used to.


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Dr Nurse Joy

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuXedo Ma5k View Post
Youre 100% wrong about the magic pen and % damage. I build her with srorc shoes and abyssmal and absolutely shred people.

I think her W needs a speed boost to it or something. Or scaling on the base damage of her Qs. Or buff to the MS in spider form. Even just 5!!
I can see magic pen working well with her W...but that's about it. I would imagine that the reason you see more damage with abysall/Sorcs is because her Q has base damage attached to it, and that's probably where you're seeing the extra damage coming in from the spell pen. I'm going with the flat % damage, however, not the base damage of the spell.

Also, I 150% agree that she needs a MS buff in spider form. 10 all game seems very lack luster, and doesn't make it worthwhile to roam in spider form, when you could potentially need to use your stun in human form on the fly. I believe that perhaps 15-20 MS seems fair for her, especially since she's supposed to be an assassin.

I also believe that her W needs a movespeed boost. The main problem with the skill is that while the damage that it can output is quite vast, even with little AP, when you use Q to jump to a champion, you have no staying power.

Perfect example of this is when I fought Yorick top lane earlier. I activated W and jumped with Q (spider form) however, his slowing ghoul was enough to allow him to distance himself from myself and my spiderlings.


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TySRT4

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeFalcon View Post
Human Q does more damage the more health they have.
Spider Q does more damage the less health they have.

Starting a fight, you'd use Q right off the bat, then W for more damage (and since you build AP, it wont be useless), E for a good 1.5 stun, switch to spider and Q/W.

That's so much better than being forced into staying spider form just for that W while the rest of your spells are useless. But people dont seem to mind this because they're focused on low AP ratios and doing damage with her spider W attack speed.
It's not even low AP ratios... people just can't get the concept of % based on health dmg... she's never going to be a cass, or viegar and so on so forth. She isn't instantaneous gratification on burst dmg. People just want high ap ratios, broken champ, retarded range


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TySRT4

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PvPretender View Post
I can see magic pen working well with her W...but that's about it. I would imagine that the reason you see more damage with abysall/Sorcs is because her Q has base damage attached to it, and that's probably where you're seeing the extra damage coming in from the spell pen. I'm going with the flat % damage, however, not the base damage of the spell.

Also, I 150% agree that she needs a MS buff in spider form. 10 all game seems very lack luster, and doesn't make it worthwhile to roam in spider form, when you could potentially need to use your stun in human form on the fly. I believe that perhaps 15-20 MS seems fair for her, especially since she's supposed to be an assassin.

I also believe that her W needs a movespeed boost. The main problem with the skill is that while the damage that it can output is quite vast, even with little AP, when you use Q to jump to a champion, you have no staying power.

Perfect example of this is when I fought Yorick top lane earlier. I activated W and jumped with Q (spider form) however, his slowing ghoul was enough to allow him to distance himself from myself and my spiderlings.
You realize % based dmg.... isn't true dmg... it can still get resisted.... and it does. I think you need to go read up on wiki and learn some facts..and game mechanics


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Dash Senpai

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Senior Member

10-27-2012

I love Elise top. That's the only lane i'll play her in. I wreck everyone.


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Boomerang69

Senior Member

10-27-2012

i did not read it but she is viable... life steal good harass and mana management .. she is annoying to play against in top lane.. and she is fast in spider form.


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The Ark

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Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PvPretender View Post
I can see magic pen working well with her W...but that's about it. I would imagine that the reason you see more damage with abysall/Sorcs is because her Q has base damage attached to it, and that's probably where you're seeing the extra damage coming in from the spell pen. I'm going with the flat % damage, however, not the base damage of the spell.

Also, I 150% agree that she needs a MS buff in spider form. 10 all game seems very lack luster, and doesn't make it worthwhile to roam in spider form, when you could potentially need to use your stun in human form on the fly. I believe that perhaps 15-20 MS seems fair for her, especially since she's supposed to be an assassin.

I also believe that her W needs a movespeed boost. The main problem with the skill is that while the damage that it can output is quite vast, even with little AP, when you use Q to jump to a champion, you have no staying power.

Perfect example of this is when I fought Yorick top lane earlier. I activated W and jumped with Q (spider form) however, his slowing ghoul was enough to allow him to distance himself from myself and my spiderlings.
Bro... I applaud your extensive posts, but I think you dont realize that health%based damage is heavily affected by magicpen. It's. The reason why eve was most effective rushing sorc>dfg>abyssmal.


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imperk

Junior Member

10-27-2012

yea, she have very usefull abilities to push and creep but u can also go mid and get an easy gank. I thi nk that is a very easy champion, and to a low health creep u can use your human form

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Stizunna

Senior Member

10-27-2012

I think her kit makes her a good bruiser and not really a mage. Honestly building ap seems pointless and a tanky tforce build is better because she gets so much attack speed from W and she has sustain as well.


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Dr Nurse Joy

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Could anyone inform me on how % damage works? I'll edit the OP as well, to clear up the confusion. And I mean % damage in conjunction with Spell Pen and % Spell Pen.