Constructive Criticism

First Riot Post
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HoneyBunchsONope

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

First off I feel the need to mention the fact that complaining about how the new TT sucks and how much you want the old one back accomplishes nothing. If you don't like it then tell riot why.

Second off do any of you realize this is a beta test? Do you even know what beta means? Riot is not necessarily removing the old one, they are just testing how the community responds to the new map. Who knows? Maybe if they made the right changes people will like the new map better than the old one.

Having said that I think I will put my thoughts into the new map.

I unlike most of you, like the new TT. They solved a lot of the problems with the old TT, but yes they have created other problems (which they will fix if everyone gives them a good argument for why things don't work)

One of the things I feel riot didn't fix was the whole team comp situation. On the other hand I don't really think there is a fix to that. With a map that has 3 people on a team, there's not enough to defend a carry. Especially in the laning phase where bruisers will always have the advantage.

Another problem a lot of people seem to have is the addition of the alters. I think that they are a nice addition but maybe they could use a slight nerf as well as increasing the lock time. Having only a 90 second lock time forces a team fight every 2 minutes or so which ruins the laning phase. I think a good change to this would be to increase the lock time to 2 minutes and/or hold off the initial unlock for 7 minutes or so. This way carries might have a chance at a laning phase and still end the match on time.

Wards. I'm not sure if the removal of this was a good idea. Granted the map is small and there isnt many places a team could be, without wards it is almost impossible to stop a team from destroying the baron-like monster up top. By the time a team realizes the other team is gone the monster is pretty much dead. (And for those I've seen in other posts complaining about how the new wriggles completely counters stealth champs really have no argument since anyone on the old TT or SR could get an oracles or drop down a sight ward anyways.) Similar to the alter problem, maybe this could be fixed by having shorter duration wards, price changes, visibility, etc.

PS. I also support the petition to keep the old TT and keep this a separate map, but we'll see how the dev goes for this map

TL;DR - If you're reading one of these then I highly doubt you're going to give constructive criticism

--Edit: Not only does it help if you tell them why, but you should put your own word in and give a plausible solution to the problem.--


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TheFoundry

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Junior Member

10-25-2012

You touch on the champ issue. I think what needs to happen there is a lot of the SR items need to be taken off TT and even more new items put into it so you don't have dps with 3k hp. Also possibly have 2 sets of champ stats. One for TT and one for SR.


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HoneyBunchsONope

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFoundry View Post
You touch on the champ issue. I think what needs to happen there is a lot of the SR items need to be taken off TT and even more new items put into it so you don't have dps with 3k hp. Also possibly have 2 sets of champ stats. One for TT and one for SR.
As i mentioned in the op I honestly don't think it's the items. It's just the logistics of having a 3v3. There isn't much room to protect the adc, and without a laning phase there is no room for the adc to snowball. But just to get an understanding of your thoughts are there any specific items you think need removal?


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Graogg

Senior Member

10-25-2012

I'll add some additional feedback in the same thread, to keeps things simple for devs.

The capping time of shrines is way too short. If you are not actively defending a shrine, you probably wont have time to get into the zone, especially with any cc thrown at you. Increase the time a few seconds, and reduce the capping speed if you under attack (not just in the circle contested). This will make the shrine fights actually last long enough to feel relevant.

The buffs from the shrines seem... a bit off. Gold on kill is ok, but has zero synergy with the damage buff. They don't feel like your increasing in power with two shrines. I feel the 'flavor' of the buffs need work.

Turret health and damage also seems much too low. I've seen an ace at lvl 16 with all towers up end up with a gg. Health/defense should probably be increased, or possibly just damage. The fountain tower should have built in splash damage.

Bruisers... are still beast mode here. Short corners, small team sizes, and full time jungle potential all favor the bruisers. Either increase sight paths (hard to do without redesigning map) or balance through items. You made some VERY good items for bruisers in this update.

Singed + torch = .... yeah... should probably address that.

The spider should do more then what he does if you want him EPIC. Maybe drop baby spiders at increasing rates, and a group wide slow so you are forced into a commit,


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Twilight Monkey

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Smart critics have been made yet were ignored:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2720762
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2718922
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2718580

They were more, but they have been drowned.


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Aquilux

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTwinkles View Post

Second off do any of you realize this is a beta test? Do you even know what beta means? Riot is not necessarily removing the old one, they are just testing how the community responds to the new map. Who knows? Maybe if they made the right changes people will like the new map better than the old one.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand it's gone.

:'(


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Dannamoth

QA Analyst

Follow Dannamoth on Twitter

10-25-2012
1 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTwinkles View Post
First off I feel the need to mention the fact that complaining about how the new TT sucks and how much you want the old one back accomplishes nothing. If you don't like it then tell riot why.

Second off do any of you realize this is a beta test? Do you even know what beta means? Riot is not necessarily removing the old one, they are just testing how the community responds to the new map. Who knows? Maybe if they made the right changes people will like the new map better than the old one.

Having said that I think I will put my thoughts into the new map.

I unlike most of you, like the new TT. They solved a lot of the problems with the old TT, but yes they have created other problems (which they will fix if everyone gives them a good argument for why things don't work)

One of the things I feel riot didn't fix was the whole team comp situation. On the other hand I don't really think there is a fix to that. With a map that has 3 people on a team, there's not enough to defend a carry. Especially in the laning phase where bruisers will always have the advantage.

Another problem a lot of people seem to have is the addition of the alters. I think that they are a nice addition but maybe they could use a slight nerf as well as increasing the lock time. Having only a 90 second lock time forces a team fight every 2 minutes or so which ruins the laning phase. I think a good change to this would be to increase the lock time to 2 minutes and/or hold off the initial unlock for 7 minutes or so. This way carries might have a chance at a laning phase and still end the match on time.

Wards. I'm not sure if the removal of this was a good idea. Granted the map is small and there isnt many places a team could be, without wards it is almost impossible to stop a team from destroying the baron-like monster up top. By the time a team realizes the other team is gone the monster is pretty much dead. (And for those I've seen in other posts complaining about how the new wriggles completely counters stealth champs really have no argument since anyone on the old TT or SR could get an oracles or drop down a sight ward anyways.) Similar to the alter problem, maybe this could be fixed by having shorter duration wards, price changes, visibility, etc.

PS. I also support the petition to keep the old TT and keep this a separate map, but we'll see how the dev goes for this map

TL;DR - If you're reading one of these then I highly doubt you're going to give constructive criticism

I want to highlight some things for players.

Saying "omg riot ******** map lame, I don't like ********* rabble rabble rabble" isn't going to be as influential as taking the time to play multiple games and writing out a post with decent arguments for specific things that you think should be changed.

In addition, just because we haven't posted in a thread doesn't mean we haven't read it.


---

Now, one thing i'd like to talk about that you brought up is lack of diversity for picks. I've managed to play 150+ games personally on the map all throughout its creation. I have found that running a balanced comp with an AD carry, mage, and tanky dude is the most successful. However, a 150 game sample size is quite small. This is why we are monitoring data from games and feedback from the forums so in the coming weeks we can tweak aspects of both the map and items to get things where we want them.


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WrathgarWarlord

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannamoth View Post
I want to highlight some things for players.

Saying "omg riot ******** map lame, I don't like ********* rabble rabble rabble" isn't going to be as influential as taking the time to play multiple games and writing out a post with decent arguments for specific things that you think should be changed.

In addition, just because we haven't posted in a thread doesn't mean we haven't read it.


---

Now, one thing i'd like to talk about that you brought up is lack of diversity for picks. I've managed to play 150+ games personally on the map all throughout its creation. I have found that running a balanced comp with an AD carry, mage, and tanky dude is the most successful. However, a 150 game sample size is quite small. This is why we are monitoring data from games and feedback from the forums so in the coming weeks we can tweak aspects of both the map and items to get things where we want them.

What about the petition to have both maps available to play in the game? Why has this not been addressed? You say you're reading our posts but you're ignoring a huge question and request.

Why can't we have both maps!?


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Graogg

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WrathgarWarlord View Post
What about the petition to have both maps available to play in the game? Why has this not been addressed? You say you're reading our posts but you're ignoring a huge question and request.

Why can't we have both maps!?
That would be a huge fragment of the already small TT playerbase. The health of the map really can't afford a separate flavor with a separate queue.

They could possibly allow it as a custom game option, but it would still feel a very hacky way of doing it. We just need to focus on making the current TT the best TT and not worry about the old version then.


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WrathgarWarlord

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graogg View Post
That would be a huge fragment of the already small TT playerbase. The health of the map really can't afford a separate flavor with a separate queue.

But the games are completely different... ?


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