Understanding the Tribunal

First Riot Post
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Kross Kawasaki

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallabatorix View Post
So you are saying because it would cost a little to make a replay system similar to starcraft is expensive and not worth investing in cause it costs extra when it would root out more toxic players than the current system?.
Now, Im Curious... Replay System would fix the questions over the table, isnt?


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Gallabatorix

Member

10-26-2012

Well i was just talking a replay system for the tribunal because i believe that reviewing the games as a whole would make it clear who needs to be banned and who doesnt. i think that verbal abuse is caused by other players intentionally or unintentionally aggravating other players. so you would be able to tell if a person is having a bad game or if a person is a troll for sure after you watch a game and read the chat. i do not understand why lyte thinks that a replay system would not help when so many people agree it would. i also think that players that take the time to judge cases should be rewarded ip bonus for each cases and the bonus would be larger or smaller depending on the length of the game. if they are correct they receive the bonus.


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Psykeres

Senior Member

10-26-2012

I love the Tribunal system and hope it keeps working along the lines it does now. So many people go insane complaining without understanding what's actually happening in Trib. The system works.


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Kross Kawasaki

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Lately, I've been receiving a lot of e-mails about the same questions and complaints about the Tribunal. I'm working with WookieCookie, RiotSeb and statuskwoh to add these to the Tribunal FAQs but we would love to discuss them here first.

1) What's the point of having a language filter if I can get banned for 'adult' language?
a) We aren't out to punish players who use adult language; in fact, very few players are ever banned for saying stuff like "f***, I missed that skill shot" or "damn, f***ing close game!" However, the language filter is not an excuse to verbally abuse someone in the game. When you verbally abuse or harass someone by calling them "f***ing ******" or "n*gger noob", that's when you've crossed the line and will be punished by the Tribunal. I've said this before and I'll say it again, we aren't trying to clean online games of adult language; we're trying to reform or get rid of jerks who like to verbally abuse and harass other players.

2) I only have 1 bad game in my Tribunal Reform Card, why am I banned???
a) The Tribunal verdict is not based on a 'majority' rule; there is also no requirement that all games have to be toxic for it to warrant a suspension. Depending on the case, sometimes 1 game is all that is needed to show that the player deserves a suspension. To Tribunal reviewers, decisions like these are up to you. When you view a Tribunal case, the questions you should ask yourselves are, "Is this player's behavior appropriate in League of Legends?" and "Would I want to play with this player?"

3) This player should have been banned, but he was pardoned. The Tribunal is broken!
a) The Tribunal was inspired by 'crowdsourcing' research. When I was still a student, I worked with labs that developed games such as "Foldit" that took advantage of crowdsourcing to find solutions to extremely tricky tasks--when you read this research you truly appreciate how accurate crowdsourcing systems can be. In fact, the Tribunal is far more accurate than traditional Player Support.

However, the Tribunal isn't perfect. The design is based on statistical probability and random sampling and every system like this has outliers. This means that sometimes, a player has an egregious Tribunal case but is still pardoned because he happened to get a lenient set of voters; however, if the player is truly toxic, he actually is re-sent back to the Tribunal in a handful of games and is usually accurately punished in his second visit to the Tribunal.

Because the Tribunal is designed to identify frequency and consistency of toxic behavior, this is why it doesn't take into account the severity of the offense. If a player is extremely toxic he will quickly get banned multiple times by the Tribunal until he is permabanned; in fact, extremely toxic players end up permabanned significantly faster than players who are 'less severe.' In the future, we may want to brainstorm ways to improve on the Tribunal so that it does take into account severity and adjusts punishments accordingly... but we're not there yet.

4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned???
a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.

5) Low skill players should be banned from the game! The Tribunal should only ban Leavers/AFK and intentional feeders, those are the only types of players that really ruin games!
a) No. Just no. Jerks ruin games. League of Legends is for everyone whether they are 500 Elo or 2500 Elo. It's not a game for jerks.

I think that Riot should be carefull about this method.
We dont live in Wonderland (even there, isnt that Wonderfull), you know...
And it's too difficult to ask ppl who just got trolled in-game to be calm and just report quietly.
Everybody in this situation tries, but i think 50% fails.

We have a lot of trolls ruining the game on purpous and saying nothing in the chat... in Riot's method, he will never be punished.

It's just my opinion.

There are people calling others "****ing noob" in any game on internet.
I dont get offended by this.
But I respect who does.

Damn, its hard talk about this.

PS: Sorry my english.


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Vahlen

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Lyte, I'm a bit disappointed that you did not take this opportunity to shed some light on the "new" false report system, is it even currently active at the moment? Were the manual bans that took place a few months ago just an initial test on the system?

I know a lot of people believe false reporting is a "non-issue", and in respect to Tribunal outcomes that is likely correct, but it still stands to reason that making false reports is breaking the summoners code and in that respect it should be punished.


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TPOTK1NG

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Senior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallabatorix View Post
i just provided 4 instances waiting for a response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallabatorix View Post
guess he didnt like me disproving him.
First off he said try to refrain from spam posting. Which is what you are doing and it doesn't leave me wanting to take you serious at all. That being said, the reform card provides 4 cases this is true, but the thing is. Its 4 specific cases that were given a report as games without reports don't make it in the tribunal case pool. Let alone there is no idea on how many games came between each of those 4.

P.S. INB4 Lyte makes this thread even more delyteful


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Vahlen

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallabatorix View Post
guess he didnt like me disproving him.
I just looked at your case, the ban is 110% justified as your attitude is awful. You are a miserable team player and certainly somebody I would never wish to meet in-game.

Take some time to re-evaluate your behavior/attitude, I think you will find that "normal" people don't act like that in public, and those that do also tend to find themselves part of a different "justice" system.


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Gallabatorix

Member

10-26-2012

did u even read the previous posts i was having a friendly discussion with him. you are the kind of player Vahlen that i will say is a troll. i can guarentee you are the type of person that trolls games and says nothing with the type of attitude you are showing now. you have said nothing that has proven your point so i am not going to validate your argument. provide several examples in that case where watching a video would have been less informative than just reading chat log. Because in case one. there is nothing done wrong at all. number 4 can vary i would say that was not a good game. but 2 and 3 i would say i couldnt go either way truthfully with the way other players were talking.


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Gallabatorix

Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoNotAgainv2 View Post
First off he said try to refrain from spam posting. Which is what you are doing and it doesn't leave me wanting to take you serious at all. That being said, the reform card provides 4 cases this is true, but the thing is. Its 4 specific cases that were given a report as games without reports don't make it in the tribunal case pool. Let alone there is no idea on how many games came between each of those 4.

P.S. INB4 Lyte makes this thread even more delyteful
number one how is it spam posting when i wait the 30 seconds to post in the thread. number 2 i asked him to tell me how many games were in between those. he did not respond. i am giving him time to defend his side. number 3 stay out of the conversation when you have nothing educated on the matter ok? thank you very much


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Hovnivál

Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Lately, I've been receiving a lot of e-mails about the same questions and complaints about the Tribunal. I'm working with WookieCookie, RiotSeb and statuskwoh to add these to the Tribunal FAQs but we would love to discuss them here first.

1) What's the point of having a language filter if I can get banned for 'adult' language?
a) We aren't out to punish players who use adult language; in fact, very few players are ever banned for saying stuff like "f***, I missed that skill shot" or "damn, f***ing close game!" However, the language filter is not an excuse to verbally abuse someone in the game. When you verbally abuse or harass someone by calling them "f***ing ******" or "n*gger noob", that's when you've crossed the line and will be punished by the Tribunal. I've said this before and I'll say it again, we aren't trying to clean online games of adult language; we're trying to reform or get rid of jerks who like to verbally abuse and harass other players.

2) I only have 1 bad game in my Tribunal Reform Card, why am I banned???
a) The Tribunal verdict is not based on a 'majority' rule; there is also no requirement that all games have to be toxic for it to warrant a suspension. Depending on the case, sometimes 1 game is all that is needed to show that the player deserves a suspension. To Tribunal reviewers, decisions like these are up to you. When you view a Tribunal case, the questions you should ask yourselves are, "Is this player's behavior appropriate in League of Legends?" and "Would I want to play with this player?"

3) This player should have been banned, but he was pardoned. The Tribunal is broken!
a) The Tribunal was inspired by 'crowdsourcing' research. When I was still a student, I worked with labs that developed games such as "Foldit" that took advantage of crowdsourcing to find solutions to extremely tricky tasks--when you read this research you truly appreciate how accurate crowdsourcing systems can be. In fact, the Tribunal is far more accurate than traditional Player Support.

However, the Tribunal isn't perfect. The design is based on statistical probability and random sampling and every system like this has outliers. This means that sometimes, a player has an egregious Tribunal case but is still pardoned because he happened to get a lenient set of voters; however, if the player is truly toxic, he actually is re-sent back to the Tribunal in a handful of games and is usually accurately punished in his second visit to the Tribunal.

Because the Tribunal is designed to identify frequency and consistency of toxic behavior, this is why it doesn't take into account the severity of the offense. If a player is extremely toxic he will quickly get banned multiple times by the Tribunal until he is permabanned; in fact, extremely toxic players end up permabanned significantly faster than players who are 'less severe.' In the future, we may want to brainstorm ways to improve on the Tribunal so that it does take into account severity and adjusts punishments accordingly... but we're not there yet.

4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned???
a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.

5) Low skill players should be banned from the game! The Tribunal should only ban Leavers/AFK and intentional feeders, those are the only types of players that really ruin games!
a) No. Just no. Jerks ruin games. League of Legends is for everyone whether they are 500 Elo or 2500 Elo. It's not a game for jerks.
Thanks man,I think you should close this thread,because I dont see,why there is a discussion needed-you made absolutely clear,what is acceptable and what is not.
Players,who question your explanation are usually the banned ones,who feel they were treated unfairly.those people are not worth your time imo and I truly admire your patience to answer the same questions again and again.
Just wanted you to know,there are people,who understand you and are aware of the great work you and your team are making for us!Keep it up!