Is it just me, or is burst caster itemization lacking on the new map?

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Galgus

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

I just got out of a game as Veigar on the map, and he seems to run into quite a few problems- partially due to the popularity of tanky bruiser types.

(I do fairly well with him on Summoner's Rift and Dominion- even with the DFG nerf. I was practicing not using it in anticipation for the patch.)


First off, Athene's Grail seems practically required in order to cast any significant number of spells in lane and have any mana left for the frequent skirmishes.

The new caster item seems interesting, but it seems far more suited to tanky sustained damage mages than true nukers: due to it only working at a flat rate, over time, and requiring money spent on health.


I know people are edgy so soon after DFG has been nerfed, but I think the game mode is in need of a strong burst caster countermeasure to health stacking- preferably without sacrificing CDR- which is crucial in prolonged fights against bruisers.

Some kind of map mana regeneration buff would also be nice to see- so that casting spells in lane without heavy mana regeneration built doesn't mean running out of mana every team-fight.


Anyway, thats my two cents- if I'm wrong and burst casters are amazing here, throw some tips my way.


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PrinceVert

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galgus View Post
I just got out of a game as Veigar on the map, and he seems to run into quite a few problems- partially due to the popularity of tanky bruiser types.

(I do fairly well with him on Summoner's Rift and Dominion- even with the DFG nerf. I was practicing not using it in anticipation for the patch.)


First off, Athene's Grail seems practically required in order to cast any significant number of spells in lane and have any mana left for the frequent skirmishes.

The new caster item seems interesting, but it seems far more suited to tanky sustained damage mages than true nukers: due to it only working at a flat rate, over time, and requiring money spent on health.


I know people are edgy so soon after DFG has been nerfed, but I think the game mode is in need of a strong burst caster countermeasure to health stacking- preferably without sacrificing CDR- which is crucial in prolonged fights against bruisers.

Some kind of map mana regeneration buff would also be nice to see- so that casting spells in lane without heavy mana regeneration doesn't mean running out of mana every team-fight.


Anyway, thats my two cents- if I'm wrong and burst casters are amazing here, throw some tips my way.
There's your problem it's not itemization it's the emphasis on strong early game this map demands.

Tanky dps reing supreme here more than old TT


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Galgus

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10-25-2012

Could that problem be solved by improved itemization, though?

A burst caster has two great weaknesses: assassins, and enemies too tanky for them to burst down.

Assassins don't seem terribly common here, but with Tanky Dps so popular, I think some itemization against them is in order.

This may be weird, but would an item scaling off of bonus health work?


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PKPikmin

Senior Member

10-25-2012

I feel they were trying to accomplish this with torch, but such an item is more effective on someone with consistent output like Cass or Karth or, ironically, AP bruisers. They nerf DFG to be a lategame item the same patch...yeah they need some better itemization.


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Ice Battle Mage

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10-25-2012

Veigar is a poor pick for treeline anyway as the game time is so much shorter you can not effectively farm your AP up.

Also putting in an item scaling of bonus health would break singed to no end since he already gets a quarter of his mana as bonus HP from his passive, and he is pretty much invincible 4 times out of 5 anyway.


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Galgus

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10-25-2012

Veigar can function on Dominion with its shorter game time- albeit the meta isn't as focused on bruisers and the gold income helps him get farmed.

Still, he can function without his Q-farm phase so long as he gets the gold.

When I said scaling off of bonus health, I meant damage based on a percentage of their bonus health: sorry for not being clear.

The bonus health thing was just a brainstorm anyway.


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Lisztomaniac

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10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceVert View Post
There's your problem it's not itemization it's the emphasis on strong early game this map demands.

Tanky dps reing supreme here more than old TT

the huge irony is that they made this new map so tanky dps wouldnt reign like they did in the old one.


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Galgus

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10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisztomaniac View Post
the huge irony is that they made this new map so tanky dps wouldnt reign like they did in the old one.
I think I saw some mention of "more viable team comps" and a statement that a physical carry/ mage/ tanky guy team comp works, but what have they actually done to fix the Tanky DPS problem.

On the old map, I think that the problems focused around the team size just as they do on the new one, mainly on these points:

A. Less crowd control to protect a carry.

B. Less damage to focus down a bruiser.

C. Drawn out team-fights due to lower damage levels, suiting bruisers.

D. Lower game time, and thus less gold, keeps physical and magical carries from scaling to defeat bruisers as well as contributing to lower damage levels as a whole.


What have they actually done to address these fundamental problems created by a lower team size?


Dominion fights are mostly either 1v1 or 4v4, where good duelists take the 1v1 bot lane and others can fight 4v4.

The game time is shorter, but passive gold generation is geared to the point that players end the game with full builds- as in Summoner's Rift- but it is more standardized due to a lower connection between gold and performance.

Thus, Dominion does not suffer from this problem of lowered damage output or reduced crowd control beyond 4v4 fights rather than 5v5, and thus SR balance works better there.