A serious approach to the new TT

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scazzaf

Senior Member

10-25-2012

First off, I'd like to congratulate Riot on making such a beautiful map, it really stands out from what you've made in the past.

Now I've seen in many threads that we should play the map and try it out for ourselves for a while before making rash accusations towards the balance and/or design of the new TT map, so before I formed my final opinion I did just that.
*******http://i.imgur.com/UxMuE.jpg********

To establish myself, I'm a long time 3's player, I've been playing since the game came out, and I'm currently 1720 ELO in TT (Platinum), and 1530 in solo/duo.

Overall, everything that I've heard from the numerous people in the games I played as well as from friends point to this map being "okay". Whenever I won a game I often heard "Forget this I'm going back to SR" which is definitely not the kind of thing you want to be hearing if you've just released a new map. Essentially, players who frequently chose SR (the majority of players) will brush off this map and go back to SR after a game or two trying it out. So after they have left (which I estimate to be a week from now) the only people who will avidly play the new map are old TT veterans and fans (the larger portion of the remaining players), and new players to the game that just want variety. The old time players (such as myself) for the most part feel shafted that the map we enjoyed for so long rather than have its issues addressed, just got replaced. Essentially, not too long from now, the only people playing this map will be a very small number of people who play it casually, and most of the old TT players who already feel ripped off by this new map.

Now that's not really a good fanbase for a new map launch.

Things that are good about the new map:

▼The new boss is brutal and well animated, much more of a threat than drag.

▼The new base layout is spectacular, the issues from the old map are resolved.

▼Beautiful 3d work, as someone who works with 3d modelling a lot, it's honestly really impressive

▼New items are a nice addition, but might need some balancing work.

My suggestions to help the map are as follows:
Consider changing the altars
I understand that they look cool and took resources to be made and put into the game, but honestly they break up the flow of the match so much and don't fit in with this style of gameplay. Personally I'd love to see neurtal buff mobs come back and replace these as a way of adjusting the map to fit the style of the old map.

EDIT Nome recently posted the following on another thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
We'll be monitoring the altars very closely. There are some potential changes sitting around, but it's really quite to early to judge their impact.
That addresses this point for the most part, thank you for looking into it Nome.

The speed shrine
This too feels massively out of place. This isn't dominion Riot, we don't need to speed to and from capture points. This map should be about player to player interactions, not rushing to points. I would love to see a lesser boss mob replace the speed shrine (Grez would be perfect, honestly) so that there is an objective for players to protect/set traps for, not some silly out of place shrine.

The lack of wards
Dominion not having wards works because you are given global vision in the main areas of conflict, the capture points. But in TT, you Don't have such global vision, and a lack of wards leads to a lack of well thought out and constructed gameplay because everyone is too afraid to come out into lane to CS, and thus just meander the jungle instead so they aren't vulnerable. Lanes are far too vulnerable without wards, which takes emphasis away from laning, and puts it on senseless fighting, which isn't anything like the old TT or SR, but is just like dominion instead.

Top jungle layout
I've seen it said elsewhere, and better than this, but the top jungle is terribly laid out. With the old dragon (Vilemaw is an amazing replacement, so good work on that) the area in which to fight was littered with other objectives and brush so that traps could be set up and you could never be certain as to whether or not the enemy team was taking the boss. As it stands now, each side gets one entrance, which leads to no creative plays in terms of traps, which played a huge role in the past. It just leads to more "bash your head against the other teams and hope you come out on top" gameplay, devoid of bush tactics and strategy.

There are more issues to address, but I won't get into it here because I've taken enough of your time as it stands. I know that these issues will never be fully resolved because of the resources that Riot has already poured into them (altars, shrine) but it feels like one step forward and two steps back.


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LimitlessChaos

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Thank you for at least making a long, thoughtful and thorough post about the changes. I am drawn to the new TT if only because it looks incredible and I haven't played nearly as much as I've spectated lately for a lot of reasons, so I'd like to try something new when I can play more.

That said, I see nothing in most threads but the childish "this isn't Twisted Treeline because I'm resistant to change and want to cry about it" statement and other such messages.

I applaud you for actually giving solid feedback and suggestions to fix things you don't think works; this kind of speaks to why people (Riot included I imagine) tend to defer to ranked players for feedback - they offer better feedback in general. I realize you're not platinum or diamond in team 3s; however, that doesn't mean you don't have a lot of strong knowledge and gold isn't bad at all.

Anyway, thanks for making a solid post - I'd like to see what pro and high-ranking players are saying is in need of changes for the new map because I'd love to get competitive with it at some point in S3.

+1 sir.


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scazzaf

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimitlessChaos View Post
Thank you for at least making a long, thoughtful and thorough post about the changes. I am drawn to the new TT if only because it looks incredible and I haven't played nearly as much as I've spectated lately for a lot of reasons, so I'd like to try something new when I can play more.

That said, I see nothing in most threads but the childish "this isn't Twisted Treeline because I'm resistant to change and want to cry about it" statement and other such messages.

I applaud you for actually giving solid feedback and suggestions to fix things you don't think works; this kind of speaks to why people (Riot included I imagine) tend to defer to ranked players for feedback - they offer better feedback in general. I realize you're not platinum or diamond in team 3s; however, that doesn't mean you don't have a lot of strong knowledge and gold isn't bad at all.

Anyway, thanks for making a solid post - I'd like to see what pro and high-ranking players are saying is in need of changes for the new map because I'd love to get competitive with it at some point in S3.

+1 sir.
Much appreciated, I'll keep playing the map and getting a feel for the changes, as it really is too early to make a black and white opinion, but after pretty much the last 7 hours spent playing the new map, I felt that I was able to form a reasonable opinion.

I'm also only 2 wins out from plat in ranked 3's, I'l probably get that tonight and come back to this thread even more credible :]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.


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scazzaf

Senior Member

10-25-2012

I'd love to hear more opinions whether in favor or contrasting with my points.


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Joseph Dom

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

I think the lock time needs to be increased by about 30 seconds and the capture time needs to go up by 2 seconds. It seems there is little time to react to a capture and the alters seem like black holes pulling everyone in instead of using the whole map.


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Impaleddearan

Member

10-25-2012

this map is horrible


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scazzaf

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impaleddearan View Post
this map is horrible
Why's that?
I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but putting reasons behind your statements adds more credibility to what you're saying.


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Hypochondria9

Senior Member

10-25-2012

It's nice to actually hear someone talk about why they don't like it, and not just say how much they hate it. Anyway I find it fun but I like constant skirmishes, I still play dominion even though I wish more people would take it seriously. Anyway 90 seconds is way too short for a lock time, and every game turns into constant fights in mid and without a large passive gold/xp gain like in dominion the game quickly snowballs.

I agree about the speed shrine I don't get why it's there, it should be replaced by a some kind of neutral monster buff. The altars maybe should still give the gold buff but taking the opponents should just deny them their bonus to stop one team from getting both and snowballing.

Also for how easy it is to gank a lane it feels so far to make it back to your turret, maybe move it closer to the middle. Also I can't push a turret without thinking I'm about to get ganked and die horribly. Vilemaw though is badass the first time he did the web and pulled everyone in, I was like oh ****, definitely my favorite change.


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scazzaf

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by scazzaf View Post
Much appreciated, I'll keep playing the map and getting a feel for the changes, as it really is too early to make a black and white opinion, but after pretty much the last 7 hours spent playing the new map, I felt that I was able to form a reasonable opinion.

I'm also only 2 wins out from plat in ranked 3's, I'l probably get that tonight and come back to this thread even more credible :]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.
As I promised, I just hit plat *******http://i.imgur.com/Y1DWs.jpg********
>Now credible


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scazzaf

Senior Member

10-26-2012

The map is growing on me the more I play, but my points still remain the same.


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