RIOT: Any changes to solo queues?

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

10-25-2012

There have been many requests form players to change certain things in slo quue, most common are issues with repeatedly playing with someone reported in previous game, ability to avoid players repeatedly reported ( but not enough to get banned), possibility to someohow avoid situation with multiple players desperatedly wanting one role, and completely new players mixed with actual 1200 elo players, also the need to persopnalize elo gain in SOLO queues , and have more factors in it then just win/loss of a team.

Specific ideas are usualy flamed up as posibbly getting toxic, so my question is:

Is riot planning any improvements for solo queue rankeds? Acknowedging its different situation form TEAM rankeds?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

10-26-2012

bump


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BigTallUgly

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Its different situation? Meaning you get 4 ******* when you just start off?

The problem isnt that solo queue is broken, the problem is that unless you play the game all day and can carry with your favorite champ in your sleep, you'll never climb.

I dont think Riot is concerned with that being a problem, honestly.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Sadly they refuseto acknowledge that even if your tam has 1 slot less avaible for troll, outcome of matches in low elo is too random based on bad player distrubuted for it to be fun.

I understand why to not force people play in predefined roles to alow meta evolve, but there should be at least option to communicate with potential teammates what you want before game, for higher chance of forming party each participant want, rather then constant argument / flaming in lobby becouse there are 3 mid players.

in 1200- solo q its rare event for argument to NOT happen rather then it occuring.now THAT is toxic.I want to follow meta, but with current matchmaking i cant do it and play my strongest role.And whole point in playing ranked is to show your skill at what you are good at !


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Amatzikahni

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacyf View Post
And whole point in playing ranked is to show your skill at what you are good at !
The whole point in playing Ranked is to show your overall skill; not just what you are good at.

Dominate in lane? Terrible at teamfighting? Then of course you're going to win your lane but lose games by getting caught out of position and letting the enemies steamroll your base. Is the opposite true? Then you'll always be fighting uphill battles until you catch the enemies making mistakes, and if they don't make those mistakes, then you'll lose due to lack of farm. Great at getting fed? Terrible at feeding teammates? Then of course you're going to go 10-2 every game, but when your teammates are 0-6 because you stole two waves of their XP every time you came to gank then you can't blame them when they have no items when the teamfighting starts. Is the opposite true? Then you'll always be the weak link unless you can only play supports/tanks which you won't be able to do every game.

You need to get better at all aspects of the game to climb. As soon as you admit that a certain aspect of the game is unimportant, then when you get to a level where all of your enemies and allies are proficient at that aspect, you will get creamed and lose games solely because of yourself and no one else. Solo queue is designed to show your overall proficiency, including the ability to counterpick and deal with counterpicks, play multiple champs/roles, and lead your team to victory while encouraging them to play better when they're having a bad game or behind on farm.

To argue against the OP, when you make a decision that helps your team to win, that is reflected in the current system by increasing the chance your team has to win, thus increasing your win percentage, thus increasing your Elo. Likewise, making a poor decision in a game will reduce your chance to win that game thus reduce your win percentage and therefore lower your Elo. Win/Loss is the most direct method of determining Elo (and it has been debated and argued for over two years without even one successful suggestion for a tweak or entirely new system). I believe my post could also be a reason for disproving your "three people want mid" argument.

Regarding the "new vs proven 1200's" argument, I cannot comment because I don't have any suggestions on the matter nor have I seen any suggestions on the forum for implementation of a working system, and I do believe myself that this is a problem. And for the "getting queued with reported people," I don't think an improvement to this sort of system would be out of Riot's hands, but an incorrectly implemented system could bring about the ability to report/block bad people and force them to be on the other team which will artificially inflate Elo. Note how I used the term "improvement" because a system is already in place but not nearly as prevalent as people desire it to be.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

xDEUCESx

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Playing at 1200 elo you should almost never play with or against the same players. That doesnt start happening until close to 1700. You can't que for specific roles because a lot of teams and players/duos like to do different things in games. Sometimes it isn't to troll but because they are bored of the same thing every game. Leaving elo decisions to a computer would be incredibly flawed. There is absolutely no way to install that. Base it on kills? Support gets ****ed. CS? Jungle gets nothing. Buying wards? Then people troll you by buying more wards


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

10-27-2012

@Amatzikahni you are a bit offtopic.
Forming team comp that is effective is part of skill you are talking about.Problem here is players have no tools to actiolly for those if they cant declare Their roles one way or another.
My elo is skyyrocketing when i dodge games with people arguing over 1 role or simply trolpicking/ making ridicolous picks - i simply have no patience to wait so much to really keep up te dodging ;P
There is such saying that ' If someone sais he's good at everything, he isnt good at anything."
Everyone has his good roles and bad ones and there shouldnt be a systen that forces them to play what they dont want/ cant, and then substract their rating becouse of it( partly becouse of it ).
As for making elo gain/loss more individual.There are many ways to make it happen. Very simple one would be letting ( optional) players give one bonus and one negative vote to each team that would reduce / buff elo change of that person.
Sure there would be ppl trolling this system, but generally players having positive impact in their teams would get more bonuses then negative ones.

@Unholymend you are jsut sooo wrong about it. I've been adding to my friend list people i reported for research reason (as i dont remember names). And i meet same players ALOT , especially same day/ time.
As a bonus i can tell you they often keep up their negative influence on games.
I've had one guy i met 4 times in 3 days.And in 3 of those games he has been flaming ever since lobby.4th game i told him i always reported him and he tried to correct his behaviour.
I fail to understand why riot thinks i'd want to play again with people i report/ignore.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Amatzikahni

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacyf View Post
@Amatzikahni you are a bit offtopic.
1. Forming team comp that is effective is part of skill you are talking about.Problem here is players have no tools to actiolly for those if they cant declare Their roles one way or another.
2. My elo is skyyrocketing when i dodge games with people arguing over 1 role or simply trolpicking/ making ridicolous picks - i simply have no patience to wait so much to really keep up te dodging ;P
3. There is such saying that ' If someone sais he's good at everything, he isnt good at anything."
4. Everyone has his good roles and bad ones and there shouldnt be a systen that forces them to play what they dont want/ cant, and then substract their rating becouse of it( partly becouse of it ).
5. As for making elo gain/loss more individual.There are many ways to make it happen. Very simple one would be letting ( optional) players give one bonus and one negative vote to each team that would reduce / buff elo change of that person. Sure there would be ppl trolling this system, but generally players having positive impact in their teams would get more bonuses then negative ones.
I'll be brief since you seem to not understand solo queue and are trying to make it something it's not with your proposed changes.

1. Solo queue is, again, your overall skill. I've seen a stream where someone called TF Mid because that was the only champ he could play, and when the enemy team FP'd TF, he ended up feeding something like 0-8 by 15 minutes (this was over 2100 Elo). He lacked basic skills that even a 1700 has, but his Elo is only high because his team has to pick and perform around this one person. He is clearly causing a mess in this regard, and his team did not enjoy playing with him. If you can only play one role, then get a ranked team where that is the only role you play; you should not even attempt solo queue if you're a one-trick pony.

2. I get trolls on my team that end up going 5-0 by 8 minutes, and I get trolls on my team that go 0-5 by 8 minutes. I also get teams where our comp blows but we still win, and I get teams where our comp owns but we still lose. Then I get duo queues that dominate and carry but other times I get duo queues that feed and I can't carry. I don't see a point in dodging unless you're near 1200 Elo and you don't want to use the mute/report features anymore, but they will eventually get to where they belong and, if you're good enough, you can still win those hard games to increase your W:L ratio which would increase your Elo.

3. Wrong. You can watch pro streams of people like Saintvicious (who is normally a jungler) carry by going AD, Chaox (who is normally a support) carry by going AP, etc. They have specialized roles which they focus on and perfect for team play, but they are good at every role and every champ because they have strong mechanics and a great understanding of the game. You will never find someone like HotshotGG playing Support and feeding because he doesn't know how to play it right, but even pros have bad games sometimes. Perhaps if you expanded your horizons you would understand the strengths and limitations of different champs and you'll learn how to play with them (your champ or someone on your team) or beat them (in lane or in lategame). I played one champ for each role and got better at those roles, then I diversified and played more champs. Today, even though I'm ~1600, I'm good at over 70 champs and I'm always a leader come midgame/lategame because I have a better understanding of the overall game than most of my teammates who only know how to perform well with a few dedicated champs.

4. There will be times when you must play those roles. This is overall game knowledge and mechanics and is imperative for you to master for Solo Queue. If you want to raise Elo, then you need to get better at every role. If you're only good at 4/5 roles, then 20% of the time you will feed and lose games for your team. That's justification for losing Elo even though your other roles might be much, much better. Try being last pick when your team picks bot lane first and the remaining two people pick their best roles, mid and jungle. Can you handle top against their FP Jax? If not, you're the heavy weight in your game and you're very likely to lose it for your team. What about picking someone with sustain like Cho? Well, you can't land your skillshots and you don't know his ranges on top of being a weak tank/initiator yourself, so grats on your deserved loss of Elo after you feed their Jax. There is no possible way that, when you're the ADC, you'll know how your tank will play if you can't even play the role yourself. Play it, understand how to play it and why you make certain initiates/retreats, and you'll get better insight into the ADC role. Or you won't know when the enemy team should/shouldn't initiate because you're a weak initiator yourself. This is game knowledge that you require in order to get better, and it's reflected in your overall ability to play because you might blame others for doing something wrong when, in fact, they did the right thing and you weren't quick enough to follow the same course of action which tipped the already close fight in the enemy's favor.

5. I've posted this so many times and it just never gets through to people on the forums. Wins and Losses are the best possible way to determine Elo gains and losses. Why? If you make a decision that will improve your team's chance to win, whether it's timing that CS right, aiding your jungle with a leash, pink warding dragon when your support is out of wards to prevent them from sneaking it, calling for a group to mid and ganking/downing the first turret for global gold/map control, sacrificing yourself for your team when someone more important than you gets caught, or whatever it may be, every good decision improves your team's chances to win, and that will increase your winrate which will increase your Elo. Likewise, getting caught by their jungle because your ward just expired or got killed by an Oracle ~20 seconds ago, choosing to drag without proper ward coverage and losing the fight without getting drag, stealing valuable XP/gold from your teammates when you come to gank their lane and fail, choosing to hit up Wraiths when top is a time-sensitive gank and their jungler comes just before you can get there—all these things reduce your team's chance to win, and that means it will reduce your winrate which will make you drop Elo. I should just copy this to my hard drive and post it whenever someone makes a moot "individual stats/votes should effect Elo gain" point. If you're really that good, you can carry many tossup games. If you're not, then you belong where you are.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

10-27-2012

For some reason you are assuming i dont know how to play, and that i haven't got varied champion picks.
Just this season i have played 1600 ranked games with over 50 champions.

I CAN play play any role, but i want to play jungler, and here is why.

In top lane you are on your own island for so long if games goes bad in other lanes, you can only ocasionaly help, and then when at 15th minute you face enemy ad carry with 10+ kills your options as bruiser are quite limited.Also picking top has a high chance of later pick picking second solo-top saying he "SAID FIRST".

On mid you can easly carry games, but its most desired position.I'd pick this role just so no noob wouldn't pick it and fail, but then dude picking after me usualy picks second mid becouse " he dont care and he trols" so i don't go mid. But i may control it as a jungler which is not so desired.

As ad carry i suck.I can play it without feeding, but thats about it, i cant dominate the game.It is just too far from my mindset.

As support im pretty decen't, but when noobs play other roles my options of carrying game are quite limited.Ward in key place is gamechanging.But when mid noob is stupid enough to jump alone into trap revealed by that ward, you cant protect him anymore.Your cc and heals also are not su helpfull when mid/ top/jungler are 1/14.

Hence i WANT to play jungler as i can control the game from that position.I can play other roles, but solo queue is not about playing your role.It is about playing good enough to carry 4 idiots you have in team.

@2 point.No amount of skill is going to let you win a game when 3 of your teammates focus on flaming eachother, and just stand afk when getting killed becouse they are typing anogher rage, and spam surrend.And if someone is raging in champin select already and trolpicks announcing it - its pretty much sealed.

@3 point.Watching pros is fun, but you are forgetting they aren't playing with people who cant do their job, so its enough for them to do theirs.

@5 so i can win 60% of games even after all those that get purposely trolled in lobby already.
So to gain 200 elo with 10% "extra" games i need to play like 140 games without loosing my nerve on loosing straks and witnessing realy stupid things..What about QUALITY of those games i played?
Thats about 70 hours of playing games which are often bad experience becouse of all those events caused by people arguing for specific role, being toxic on purpose (becouse its not quite enough to get banned) or simply picking retarded things.
Im asking riot to make these games Better experience, not to make it easier to get elo.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Players often had decided what they will play even before game.They will pick this specific role / champion regardless of their team preferences, and often in spite of those.

Im not saying its good attitude but...
Might aswell let those peple declare what they will pck, and have them assigned to team that desire this specific role instead of team that would consider it trolling, dont you think?

And this argument of not leting meta evolve.. meta is evolving with premade team choices, especialy on profesional level, not by solo queue low rank where problem with picks is most common.
Besides system wouldnt force players to pick/play what they declared, it would marely let them announce what they want before game.


12