Fair enough that Darius ult is true damage

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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Please, don't mention "kill-steals" in a team game, especially not on Dominion.

And character annoyance is often the cause for bans/thinking a champion is "OP", even if all they are is annoying, rather than strong.


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Tempestphile

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
Did you know Olaf can dish out more true damage than Darius can in a match?
Rank 5 Reckless swing is 340
Rank 3 Noxian Guillotine is 640 max (+150% AD)

Clearly Olaf can dish out more...

Yes, Darius might be an ulti, but then it resets on kill, so cooldown as an argument point is pointless.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Check how much damage they did end game, math out how much of it was true damage. You'll see Olaf's did significantly more true damage, both in absolute terms and in terms of percentage of his total damage output.

And no, Darius can't just ult non-stop, so the CD definitely comes into account. Not to mention at level 9, if Olaf maxed E first, his E deals about as much damage as Darius' ult with max stacks.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
Rank 5 Reckless swing is 340
Rank 3 Noxian Guillotine is 640 max (+150% AD)

Clearly Olaf can dish out more...

Yes, Darius might be an ulti, but then it resets on kill, so cooldown as an argument point is pointless.
The thing about Olaf is that he doesn't need to wait for targets to get low in order to spam his true damage nuke, he just mashes E whenever its off cooldown on anyone he pleases.

Darius has to wait for stuff to 1) get 5 stacks of his passive and 2) get to low enough health that he can finish them off with it.
Olaf pretty much opens fights with his true damage, and keeps using it throughout the course of a duel.

Like the others said, Olaf will be dishing out more true damage more quickly over the course of a game than Darius can.


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SlasherBag

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Darius has fallen by the wayside similar to Yorick in terms of being bannable. Yes, both champs are strong picks, but there are stronger picks than them to worry about. Also, both have been played enough now to know how to counter them (early aggression against Yorick with decent sustain, and peeling + not skirmishing with Darius).

While pointing out how relatively OP you believe a champion is can bring attention to a potential problem, you can't really do much about it, especially when playing in blind pick. My constructive criticism would be that if you ever encounter a champion you believe is OP (or any champ that consistently beats you), try a build you haven't done before against them and learn from it. Aside from that, don't get your hopes up for nerfs from Riot unless the champ is seen as OP in SR, and just keep trucking on figuring out counters.


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otirruborez

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Check how much damage they did end game, math out how much of it was true damage. You'll see Olaf's did significantly more true damage, both in absolute terms and in terms of percentage of his total damage output.

And no, Darius can't just ult non-stop, so the CD definitely comes into account. Not to mention at level 9, if Olaf maxed E first, his E deals about as much damage as Darius' ult with max stacks.
nobody cares how much true damage you did to a creep or how much true damage you did to someone that lived. vayne ends up doing more true damage than both by those metrics.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by otirruborez View Post
nobody cares how much true damage you did to a creep or how much true damage you did to someone that lived. vayne ends up doing more true damage than both by those metrics.
Great point! Vayne probably puts out as much true damage as Darius does as well.

It's not exactly fair to say "omg darius true damage broken" then shrug off us pointing out that other characters have better, more spammable true damage by saying "it doesnt matter its op". What people are really mad about is that he's the best dueling and fighting champion in the game, and they can't take their regular lolbruiser or glass cannon and stomp his face in.

I agree he doesn't punish mistakes his summoner makes quite well enough (not getting ult kill should be punishable by champion death 3x or something), but he IS balanced and he IS fine and people are just butthurt that he's strong.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by otirruborez View Post
nobody cares how much true damage you did to a creep or how much true damage you did to someone that lived. vayne ends up doing more true damage than both by those metrics.
Yeah, because you /always/ kill everyone, so physical as opposed to magic damage dealt to people who lived is insignificant when you consider whether to get ArPen or MrPen. Time to get MrPen on Garen!

The creep point is fair, but the rest isn't. We should be getting in the end-game charts a "Damage dealt to champions" soon, according to Brian. I still bet Olaf will do more true damage to champions than Darius. Dunno about Vayne.


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otirruborez

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Yeah, because you /always/ kill everyone, so physical as opposed to magic damage dealt to people who lived is insignificant when you consider whether to get ArPen or MrPen. Time to get MrPen on Garen!

The creep point is fair, but the rest isn't. We should be getting in the end-game charts a "Damage dealt to champions" soon, according to Brian. I still bet Olaf will do more true damage to champions than Darius. Dunno about Vayne.
darius ult will kill you at 40% hp. swing will not. the true damage olaf does to people that escape is irrelevant, which is a huge portion if his end game stat damage(like any champion).

340 true damage is pretty good, but a regular crit hits that hard.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Except Olaf often gets more than one Reckless Swing in during his duel with someone, so it's not just the 340 that ends things.