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Lord Van Damm's Pillager

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Done25

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Xyltin:
~Snip~

Well the thing is, Do you buy a LW or use that slot to get a Blood Thirster?
40 damage and 40% penetration isn't very helpful when they only have 10 armor left in comparison to +100 ad and some life steal.

Quote:
Akesgeroth:
I swear to ****ing god...

READ MY POSTS. THIS IS WHY I MENTIONED AMBUSHING THE ENEMY TEAM FROM BEHIND.

This is why assassins are so problematic. They don't go in from the front, they can't. But going in from the back is nigh impossible, especially if the enemy team is camping under a tower.

ANYONE does better if they get behind the team and lays waste to the squishes from the bush. That's kind of a no brainier. This is why talon has a 2.5 sec invisibility that allows him to just run past the front lines and jump onto the less durable targets. It's why ALL good assassins have invisibility or long ranged gap closers. Shaco, Rengar, Kha'Zix, Talon, Akali. When given the proper opening they can slip past the bruisers and the tanks to blow up the mages and the ranged ADC.


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Al3x4ndar

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Phreak:
What I can say, though, is that Season 3 has a lot of changes in store for assassins. Armor penetration is going to play nice with itself: % pen is going back before flat pen, meaning Brutalizer + Last Whisper just got a lot sexier, and overall, Pantheon and Talon are getting a lot happier. Flat resists got a bit more expensive, so they're going to do a better job against armor-splashing adc/mage/supports as well. Overall, it's going to be a nice change for the assassin role.


I love this. Armor pen. runes getting back in the game. And with them maybe we'll even start seeing Black Cleaver again.

Quote:
Phreak:
1. No

2. It's there. It's a typo in the patch notes.

LVD's pillager is not an AD burst-caster item. This isn't good for Talon. Talon wants more damage and more armor penetration.

HP/CDR/SV are bruiser stats. It's good for Darius and Riven.


But why not make another upgrade of Brutalizer for burst casters, with AD, Arm. Pen. and CDR? Cause mixing Brutalizer with HoG was a bit weird. You probably did this for bruisers, but bruisers had enough building options already.


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ZodiarkSavior

Recruiter

10-25-2012

Quote:
ElementzPRO:
This is definitely an AD caster item

Why would pantheon not benefit from spellvamp hp and cdr?

even talon has to get in the middle of the enemy team so hp isnt gonna be bad on him


No, its not.

On paper, yes, in practice no.

Talon generally needs more AD, so this item will waste gold for him.

Not to mention, even if you did 1000 damage to a person with your ult, you would only heal for....33 HP.

Quite a lot.


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shamurai7

Senior Member

10-25-2012

so basicly summoners rift champs who are AD casters are still getting fked over.

you know...because there are ZERO items for ad casters on summoner rift.
you guys must want every talon, khazix, riven, and pantheon to only ever play the new twisted treeline right?


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Viaz

Senior Member

10-25-2012

arm pen boots plz


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Akesgeroth

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
ANYONE does better if they get behind the team and lays waste to the squishes from the bush. That's kind of a no brainier. This is why talon has a 2.5 sec invisibility that allows him to just run past the front lines and jump onto the less durable targets. It's why ALL good assassins have invisibility or long ranged gap closers. Shaco, Rengar, Kha'Zix, Talon, Akali. When given the proper opening they can slip past the bruisers and the tanks to blow up the mages and the ranged ADC.


No, not anyone. The point of an assassin is to do so much burst as to take out the target before the enemy team can react. Bruisers do not do this unless fed to hell and back. And FYI:

Talon: His ult is an escape. If you use it as a gap closer, you're doing it VERY wrong.
Shaco: His blink+stealth does work very well, but if you're using it from the front lines, you're doing it wrong.
Rengar: People build him tanky. And he's getting nerfed for a reason.
Khazix: Khazix is a walking piggy bank for the enemy team most of the time.
Akali: Has a massive dash, and if you go in from the front odds are high you'll be dead before your target.


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iamthedunkmast3r

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Afflictid:
I REALLY don't think bruiser's need more items. They're pretty set.

i bet you supported the atmas nerf?


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Xyltin

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Done25:
Well the thing is, Do you buy a LW or use that slot to get a Blood Thirster?
40 damage and 40% penetration isn't very helpful when they only have 10 armor left in comparison to +100 ad and some life steal.


ANYONE does better if they get behind the team and lays waste to the squishes from the bush. That's kind of a no brainier. This is why talon has a 2.5 sec invisibility that allows him to just run past the front lines and jump onto the less durable targets. It's why ALL good assassins have invisibility or long ranged gap closers. Shaco, Rengar, Kha'Zix, Talon, Akali. When given the proper opening they can slip past the bruisers and the tanks to blow up the mages and the ranged ADC.


It is proven that LW is always good when you deal only physical dmg. Even for an ADC (We saw Ez bulding Triforce -> LW in the S2 WC, Graves using BF + LW and other stuff).

You pay 710 less gold for LW. Assassins don't want the life steal. The Ad boost is nice, but you are mostly around 20-30 instead of full 40.

You can get up to 46 flat ArPen (more is hard to get and mostly not worth it, cause you need to finish Ghostblade, what is not an ideal item till you have no other options left).

Every champ gets 60+ Armor (Heimer has the lowest i think with 61). Most champs get around 70-90 (let's say 80).
LW will reduce it to (we get 46% with the mastery) 43 Armor. That means you lose 3 flat pen (i used reds and quints, mastery and ghostblade for that penetration, while flat AD marks are often a bit better early for CS and also later when you get LW).

Now lets say BT gives you 90 AD. that is 50 AD more than LW. but the price difference is worth around 20 AD.
that means the thing you have to look at are 30 AD vs 40% ArPen (what is mostly 35+ ArPen).


What is better? 40-45% more dmg against squishies (using 100 Armor) or 30 AD (around 120-150 more raw dmg).
I think increasing your 1k dmg by the % amount is way better than the small amount of dmg increase.


Riot removed that system cause it was broken.

They would have to reduce the overall penetration numbers and give more options for penetration but no big ones (nothing above 25 flat pen and 30% pen).


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Fashbinder

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Phreak:

HP/CDR/SV are bruiser stats. It's good for Darius and Riven.


Scumbag Phreak disrespecting renekton.

It will allow him to do tonnes of damage.


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4Touchdowns1Game

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Phreak:
That's actually quite different.

An Assassin will deal all its damage up front before counter-attack and disengange.

An AD Carry will deal a bunch of damage up front, but will be counter-attacked and will need to gain health back, because he needs to keep fighting.

Umm so you're telling me Akali isn't an assassin?