Specific Feedback for New Twisted Treeline

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Entropic Thought

Member

10-23-2012

Let me start this post saying that I've played thousands (literally) of 3v3 games, and I play the mode almost exclusively. I played ranked to about 1650 and then got bored, but I play with and against the best on a routine basis. After logging onto the PBE and playing on the new Twisted Treeline, I decided to write this post.

This is my feedback of old vs. new.

The Jungle

I was a dedicated jungler for my entire time playing 3v3. Every good player knows the role is necessary, and that when played right often decides the entire game. Here are my thoughts:

Pros:
- Finally updated camps to be easier and give mana/health for killing (good for widening viable jungler pool)
- No more randomization leading to cases of imbalance (consistent jungle = balanced jungle)
- More difficult boss makes early cheese 'Dragon'ing much less viable
- Vilemaw more easily secured than Dragon when in a dominant position (now, you must be pushing out into lane to even have vision of Vilemaw as opposed to dragon where you had 3 brushes right next door to threaten even a massively ahead team from)

Cons:
- New jungle route is EXTREMELY boring (seriously...walk in a triangle and kill camps, repeat)
- No buffs (new jungler role will just be for farming and gank/countergank instead of securing valuable buffs)
- Layout makes jungle fights awkward (you can randomly lose vision of champions, the altar being blocked on the sides makes maneuvering needlessly difficult)
- Speed shrine and lack of wards makes ganking too easy and too difficult to counter (self-explanatory)
- Simplicity of the jungle area makes fights less exciting (less opportunities for brush juking, kiting, etc. and lowers the impact of player skill)

SUGGESTIONS:
- Add more terrain/brush within the jungle to make fights more interesting
- Remove speed shrine and replace it with old Grez red buff (seriously, this ain't dominion - a speed shrine means ganks are easy always, red buff adds a valuable objective that must be contested for a better gank success chance)
- Add more incentive for invading enemy jungle (right now, you can just stay in your own little triangle jungle and farm your camps with ~10 second time between full clears - there's no incentive for invading and creating awesome team fights)
- Allow wards to be purchased (wards being unavailable makes the map extremely passive - wards are what allow for aggressive plays, not fog of war)


The Layout

Pros:
- Points mentioned in jungle relating to accessibility of new Dragon
- Wall between nexus and summoner platform (no more gimmicky super minion pulls to stall a game for ages)
- Thicker wall to nexus (no more gimmicky backdoor attempts after getting nexus tower)
- Thicker walls between lane/jungle (makes more champions viable, as blinks don't have such a huge impact - even non-blink champions can be viable)
- Capture mechanic of altars is inherently flawed (to capture or prevent capture, you must be standing on top of the altar - huge vulnerability to AoE initiation and huge weakness for ranged champs that must walk up to melee champs)

Cons:
- Less playable area on the map stemming (from removal of top jungle and thicker walls)
- Lack of wards combined with speed shrine and brush placement makes ganking too easy and mandates extremely passive play (for good players, of course bad players might be extremely aggressive)
- Fewer objectives to contest and all are more difficult to contest (means that games will have less action and more passive farming)
- Too easy to just push top lane to deny vision of vilemaw
- Blink champions now less viable because very few walls are thin enough to dash through, and movespeed champions (e.g. Hecarim/Blitzcrank/Teemo) are now disproportionately strong

SUGGESTIONS:
- Open up vilemaw pit or the entrances to it to be a bigger area for fighting
- Remove speed shrine (replace with old red buff as aforementioned) and allow wards to be used
- Remove walls on the sides of capturable altars (opens up more usable space for jungle fights and removes the awkward vision impediment created by these walls)


The Items

Pros:
- Greater variety allows more champions to be viable (especially options for casters to deal with HP stacking tanks)
- Addition of AD/Arpen/CDR/Spellvamp item for AD casters
- No more warmog's
- Better option than Executioner's Calling to provide grievous wound
- More useful elixirs to purchase (blue buff on demand and tower push steroid to end stalemates)

Cons:
- Numbers on new items may not be balanced appropriately
- No wards (maybe this was just an oversight related to using Dominion as the baseline format for this new map?)
- Vision granting items (e.g. hex sweeper/new wriggle's) insufficient for map awareness

SUGGESTIONS:
- This element of new TT was definitely the best thought-out and executed (besides the lack of wards, obviously) of the changes; props.
- Wards, seriously. If you want an aggressive map you need wards - without them you just get unending passivity
- Look carefully at cost/stat ratio and active strength on items to balance cost vs. effective benefit


I love Twisted Treeline. As numerous as the problems were with the old Twisted Treeline map though, this new one has even more. As it currently stands, the old Twisted Treeline is, in my opinion as a long-time player and someone who understands its meta/strategy, still the superior map.

By looking carefully at the Cons and solving the problems they create, this new map could even surpass the old Twisted Treeline as the go-to map for Champion vs. Champion focused high-pace combat.


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Entropic Thought

Member

10-24-2012

New twisted treeline is very bad at creating teamfights, and very good at creating passivity. Even worse though, there's just so little to the map that it's generally boring. You just never feel like you need to fight anything because the only real objective is vilemaw, and one soul lantern and pushing top lane prevents that for the entire game.

I never thought I'd say this, but new twisted treeline as a whole feels more like the first 15-20 minutes of summoner's rift than anything...the most boring part of the whole game is now the whole game.


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PDiddy

Senior Member

10-24-2012

I have to respectfully disagree. Controlling the alters can give you a huge advantage (denying the other team of gold and giving yours an ad/ap boost.

Ganking is rampant, as the only real safe time to go for an enemy teams alter is when one or more of them is dead.

Once those chain unlock ganks/teamfights start breaking out. That's every 90 seconds.


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Borygmos

Senior Member

10-24-2012

~i have to 2nd guess myself a lot when walking past alter, always feel like im going to give my vision away, i hate how alters play out, its impossible to defend them when you get two ranged teammate who need to farm before they can contribute(i got it set up to where i get two jungle groups and hit 2, then cap alter at 2, but maybe having them unlock at 5 or something?"
~i dont mind that reds gone, i hate how vilemaw is, being able to ward it and ambush them when your behind leads to epic comebacks, or at least evening out the game, comebacks are a healthy part of competitive game play
~as far as map plays out tho, wards would simply give to much vision, im not sure if youve played teemo yet, but his shrooms feel rediculous

p.s. tryndamere can still go threw all the walls, its glorious


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Clockworksummonr

Senior Member

10-25-2012

This map creates more problems than it solves and AP characters are even less viable.

Also, why is there no sort of bloodrazor for non ADCs?

Darius is an IWIN button because he can 1v1 you with 3.5k hp...

No problems were solved, less viable characters and balance is total ****


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Dyldozer72

Junior Member

10-25-2012

Maokai can be played ap and he is completely viable.


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pjkreis

Junior Member

10-25-2012

I must admit I already miss the old Twisted Treeline. I agree with the points mentioned above but most important of all, this feels like a completely new map, everything changed so much that it completely lost the fast-pace the old Twisted Treeline had.
I'm not saying I don't like it though, it's still a Beta and I still have a lot to learn, but it seems we just lost a map in exchange for a new, different one, with a new, different gameplay.