Singe (Tank)

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Diezehl

Member

10-12-2009

It should be noted that due to Singed's passive, catalyst of the protector is a cheap way to get a lot of hp. If you have the intention of building rod of ages later on, then it is reasonable to get 2 or more catalysts as early as possible then build a force of nature/warmogs before finishing your first rod.

You can easily get 2 catalysts before level 10, and the stacking hp/mana regen on level up is extremely helpful early/mid game.

If you have no intention of getting more than 1 rod of ages, then another approach is to keep the catalyst for as long as possible before building your rod, it may seem counter intuitive due to the rods health/mana gain over time, but this will allow you to accumulate hp faster over the course of the game if you spend gold elsewhere.


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CnB84

Senior Member

10-12-2009

What's the hp regen and armor bonus on insanity potion?


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Patyrn

Senior Member

10-13-2009

Get all mp/5/18 in blue and movement quintessences. Everything else is up to preference. I would consider hp regen in yellows if I had any damned hp regen runes.

The mp/5/18 is all the regen you will need the entire game. I never buy a mana regen item and I almost never run out.


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Wriggle

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Adjudicator

10-13-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by CnB84 View Post
What's the hp regen and armor bonus on insanity potion?
+X damage, +X% aspd, +X ap, +X armor, +X ms, +Xhp/5sec for 25sec

X is 35, 50, or 65 depending on level of Insanity Potion.


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Pigsticker

Senior Member

10-15-2009

I personally don't see the merits in stacking AP and excessive movement speed on Singe when I play him as a tank. I would much rather have 40% snare/stun reduction and 35 magic resist then an additional 20 movement speed in just about every game I've played with him. Not taking runes/masteries into account, the boots double his Magic Block Value to 70 if its the first MB piece you get, taking him from 26% magic damage reduction to 41% before opponent's spell pen. The early addition of Spell Block actually reaps the biggest rewards because it has diminishing returns the more you get. And the snare reduction is a huge buff to survivability.

As for the AP from RoA, I just don't see the worth in it. Singe doesn't need help farming so its gotta be designed to help against players but if you're getting RoA early game, (and you have to for it to be at all worth it), you're definitely sacrificing either a Spell Block or Armor piece in the first half of the game and to me, theres no way its worth it. For instance, grabbing a Banshee's Veil instead of Rod of Ages would give you similar Health and Mana values right off the bat (though RoA will scale better with time) but it would also give you 60 more Magic Block which would bring your base 26% magic damage reduction to 50% before your opponents spell pen. And it also does that whole blocking a full spell every 30 seconds thing which is obviously incredible. Plus Banshee's is 200 gold cheaper to make. And all your giving up at first is a scaling 50 AP that becomes 30 more AP after 15 minutes.

I'm not going to offer a suggested item build because I don't really believe in the concept itself since you should be tailoring your item build around your allies/opponents, but in my last game where I was solo laning against Ashe and Zil, which was tough as hell I might add, my first 3 peices were: Force of Nature, Mercury Treads and Warden's Mail. I actually bought FoN and MT at the same time on my second trip back (the 1st trip I picked up Boots 1, another Regrowth and the Shell) and favored protecting myself against Zil over Ashe because it was almost impossible to stop Zil from time bombing me.

In cases like that, I find grabbing more maximum hitpoints (like from RoA) isn't nearly as effective as getting damage reduction items and better Health Regen. Boosting your total HP is more useful in the end game when you're trying to survive lots of burst in team battles, but laning is a war of attrition, and being able to recover quickly and take less damage will show greater returns.

My final item build in that game was Force of Nature, Mercury Treads, Warden's Mail, Banshee's Veil and the HP items (Belt and Crystal) to make a Warmog's before we ran out of time. I had a too much Magic Block on paper, but they were penetrating about 50 of it through the Ab Staff, and runes and masteries.


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tenthirtytwo

Senior Member

11-06-2009

Just wanted to provide some feedback. I play solo queue and am probably not ranked up very high.

I tried out the original build in this thread for a few games and did OK, but it felt a little lacking in the tank department. As a tank, I just felt like I was too fragile. The damage was pretty good, and I ended up getting more kills than I did with the next build.

I switched to the previous poster's strategy instead. I feel much more durable, especially at lower levels. Even at level 12ish, with 1500hp, it takes a LOT to bring me down. For the few games I've tried this in, my opponents have all been physical dps, so my build went something like:

regrowth pendant
ninja tabi
regrowth pendant
chalice (found I run out of mana too easy without the rod)
force of nature
warden's mail
warmog's

This is as far as I've gotten in the 5+ games I've played with this build. Even though I have less HP, I feel a lot more durable than with the build in the OP. I get less kills, but I survive for a very long time. Last game I had something like 5 kills, 3 deaths, 25 assists.

Anywho, give them both a shot but I personally feel like this build works better as a pure tank build, at least at my level of play. Which again is probably not very high.


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LolCatIsLol

Senior Member

11-18-2009

I was thinkin.. why not Rylai's?

It gives a pretty nice AP boost, as well as slows opponents down upon fling... (maybe poison as well), making its effect almost as good as warden's armor


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IvanMoody

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Senior Member

11-30-2009

why get toss level 3? 50 extra damage vs 32% slow? i mean comon


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RamboBatman

Senior Member

12-01-2009

Some thoughts on tanking with Singed:
1) Boots: your choices are BoS or Merc. Treads. Pick depending on the opposing team. Its important to note the treads are good vs. stuns and roots but generally poor vs. slows which are easily chainable. If someone has started frozen malleting you or Ashe has started ice arrowing you then reduction in the length of the slow isn't too useful because you're going to be slowed again .5 secs later. Someone in this thread mentioned sorc. boots. I don't know which version they were refering to but, but both are bad.

2) Starting items: Regrowth pendant isn't a bad choice but is not as good as either part of Catalyst. Catalyst is getting a nerf soon but until then its a no-brainer. Post-nerf we'll see how effective it is but I'm guessing it'll still be too good to pass up especially given how good both RoA and Banshee's veil are on Singed. Regrowth pendant builds into potentially 3 items only one of which should be bought. Philosopher's Stone is terrible on Singed. Catalyst is better regen and builds into something useful whereas PhilStone is a Gold/5 dead end. Singed has less than 0 problems farming so the money isn't significant.
Warmogs is another poor buy for Singed. It does give more HP than any item in the game but, that just isn't enough. For a little less you can buy RoA which works for Singed in every way. Its got HP, Mana (which is more HP), and AP all of which he utilizes well and requires (you guessed it) Catalyst which you're building anyway.
If you intend to build a Force of Nature regrowth pendant isn't a bad buy but, FoN is better late game. FoN's passive gets better the more HP you have making it less effective early game.

3) Summoner Spells: Ghost and Teleport are my particular faves, I could see some other choices (cleanse, heal, maybe exhaust) being useful but, the OP mentioned Rally which I think is just awful for Singed. First, you're not getting the improved mastery because going up the offensive tree that far isn't worth it. Because you're not getting the improved version you're not getting more magic damage so you're not improving Singed's main way of dealing damage. Increased physical damage is alright but auto-attacking as Singed is pretty bad. Also, since Singed works best while running around like a crazy person you're not going to want to be waiting around next to a flag regening. Rally is great for your team but terrible for you so, let another member of your team pick it up.

Last point: The op mentioned that "toss will be your main source of damage." This is just wrong. Toss is used to move opponents into range of your teamates, the damage dealt is incidental. Poison trail will do far more damage than toss in the long run. Never level up toss (past lvl 1, which is necessary) when poison trail is available. Toss, Trail, Trail, Goo, Trail, Ult should be your early skill build. Sure, toss scales well with AP but, considering that trail does DoT it actually does more damage with AP than the toss.

tl;dr: Condon has posted a very good guide for Singed, it is well reasoned and actually fun to read. You should read that before you follow this guide.


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medlish

Member

12-01-2009

Catalyst is imo the better option for the beginning. Also more useful for later items.


I normally also get Goo around lv 5 or 8 but just one level. Helps you really well with kills.

Also about fling/poison damage to the above post:

Poison is extremely effective to farm with so it's a good choise to max it early. Also helps well against squishy targets. But fling with some AP does more damage then you think. I've killed far more enemies with fling than with poison. Ofcourse last hit with it is easier but it feels a tad more stronger than poison to me. But really, it doesn't matter since you normally take both skills on the enemy.