Clever Girl: Jungling as Akali

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BestScytherNA

Senior Member

02-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montegomery View Post
Videos:
Basic Route: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fW2UJovqwc
Commentary on Basic Route: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtQxssZ9xUY
Other Routes: Forthcoming
Videos were awesome; I watched all of them on your youtube after reading this.


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AkitaNeru

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Senior Member

02-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montegomery View Post
Your setup is very similar to Interceptor402's, but I think his has the advantage. You both end up with effectively the same AP and AD, just enough to activate both passives, but his build also has 7 Armor that yours doesn't and costs less IP.

Ignite is actually a very good summoner spell for ganking. It's 150-200+ damage that can't be mitigated and counteracts potions/healing. The issue with Ignite is less that it isn't helpful when ganking, and more that going Smite/Ignite leaves you with no escape mechanisms while jungling.
The problem with Ignite for ganks is that Akali, pre-level 6, does not have a good means to actually reach the enemies in a lane if they're playing somewhat carefully. Ignite's great for finishing them off, but Lizard Buff does nothing if you can't actually hit them a few times.

Of course, this only becomes an issue when the lane you're going to gank isn't pushed that far towards your tower and/or your teammates in that lane don't have any strong CC (stun, taunt, knockup, etc.). Just the way I look at it.

And yeah, it sucks not having an escape in the jungle, and not having a way to get to lanes that need help in a quick manner. :/


Also, what's Interceptor's build? I can't think of any other way to set up for jungling without losing either points in Archmage's Savvy or points in my defense tree. Very curious. :P


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Montegomery

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Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkitaNeru View Post
The problem with Ignite for ganks is that Akali, pre-level 6, does not have a good means to actually reach the enemies in a lane if they're playing somewhat carefully. Ignite's great for finishing them off, but Lizard Buff does nothing if you can't actually hit them a few times.

Of course, this only becomes an issue when the lane you're going to gank isn't pushed that far towards your tower and/or your teammates in that lane don't have any strong CC (stun, taunt, knockup, etc.). Just the way I look at it.

And yeah, it sucks not having an escape in the jungle, and not having a way to get to lanes that need help in a quick manner. :/


Also, what's Interceptor's build? I can't think of any other way to set up for jungling without losing either points in Archmage's Savvy or points in my defense tree. Very curious. :P
Ignite and Ghost secure kills in different situations when you're ganking pre-6. I generally consider Ignite slightly stronger for a few reasons. First, you don't blow it immediately, meaning that if your gank fails you still have it available without having to wait a long time for another attempt (whereas your target may no longer have their own summoner spells). Second, it counters champions with heals who tend to make ganking bottom lane in particular a pain. Finally, it's far and away better once you actually hit level 6 as reaching the opponent ceases being an issue at that point.

But again, Ghost is all around better because it provides an escape mechanism as well as a ganking tool.

Interceptor402's build is in this very thread 2-3 pages back. The notable difference is he uses 4 AD Seals instead of an AD Quint to reach 10 AD, allowing him to use another AP Quint. Thus he gets almost exactly as much AP and AD as your build while keeping 5 Armor Seals.


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AkitaNeru

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Senior Member

02-02-2011

You have a point about ignite. It's definitely much better as a gank tool once you hit 6, but I've been altering my jungle path to deal with overextended enemy lanes. I go Twin Golems -> Wraiths -> Wolves -> Lizard, and then gank at 3 in those games.

Ahh, that's an interesting build difference. If I had enough, IP, I'd swap to it, since it seems about the same. :P


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Love what you've done here, and soon I will just break down and buy my AD Marks so that I can do the job right. I just have one small nit to pick though, personal pet peeve, and all that. :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montegomery View Post
  • Sheen: A viable item to build before Rylai's, but only with the intent to later upgrade to Lich Bane. Sheen by itself greatly increases Akali's burst potential and jungling speed.
This is a very common misconception, that I would have hoped to not see in an Akali guide that stresses having 20AP from runes/masteries at level 1.

You see, the thing is, if you have -no- external sources of AP, you can easily rush Lichbane in many cases, before you have 80 base AD, thus, your Lichbane procs should be even, or just slightly better than your Sheen procs. However, starting with 20AP, you will have at bare minimum 100 AP when you complete Lichbane as your first item, and if you have done so before ~level18, then you will certainly gain damage, in addition to all of the nice things that Lichbane does for you.

I would never argue that it is better for Akali to rush Lichbane before Rylai's (but it certainly is for Eve, and -can- be for other champs, such as Akali, situationally), only that you are not losing damage if you do so.

Anyways, thanks for your efforts. <3


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

02-02-2011

2 other things - awesome music, gonna go check out more Yoshida Brothers ASAP!

Also, most players will find rather difficult to 'pre-load and run' from recalling, if on purple team. You may not be aware, but the 'Shop' area is far larger on blue side, and if someone is not every bit as sharp as you were in the video, they would run out of range on purple side. I am sure you could pull it off, but many people will risk loosing several seconds, in order to gain just a couple.


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Blink Winkel

Senior Member

02-03-2011

hmmm you seem to give up the magic pen 9th point in the offense tree, is it possible to somehow get that mastery?


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Montegomery

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Senior Member

02-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonclaw View Post
Love what you've done here, and soon I will just break down and buy my AD Marks so that I can do the job right. I just have one small nit to pick though, personal pet peeve, and all that. :P

[/LIST] This is a very common misconception, that I would have hoped to not see in an Akali guide that stresses having 20AP from runes/masteries at level 1.

You see, the thing is, if you have -no- external sources of AP, you can easily rush Lichbane in many cases, before you have 80 base AD, thus, your Lichbane procs should be even, or just slightly better than your Sheen procs. However, starting with 20AP, you will have at bare minimum 100 AP when you complete Lichbane as your first item, and if you have done so before ~level18, then you will certainly gain damage, in addition to all of the nice things that Lichbane does for you.

I would never argue that it is better for Akali to rush Lichbane before Rylai's (but it certainly is for Eve, and -can- be for other champs, such as Akali, situationally), only that you are not losing damage if you do so.

Anyways, thanks for your efforts. <3
I believe you quoted the wrong bullet. Did you intend to discuss this one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montegomery View Post
  • Lich Bane: This is widely considered the second most essential item for Akali. It sends her burst potential through the roof, increases her movement speed, and even gives her additional defense. This is a second or third item, never first as it requires at least one other major AP item for its damage to be better than Sheen's.
This is not a misconception but a failure of communication. The intended meaning of the sentence is, "This is a second or third item, never first as it requires at least one other major AP item for its damage to be better than simply keeping Sheen and working toward Rylai's or Rabadon's." Obviously that meaning was lost in the truncation, a problem I've remedied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonclaw View Post
2 other things - awesome music, gonna go check out more Yoshida Brothers ASAP!

Also, most players will find rather difficult to 'pre-load and run' from recalling, if on purple team. You may not be aware, but the 'Shop' area is far larger on blue side, and if someone is not every bit as sharp as you were in the video, they would run out of range on purple side. I am sure you could pull it off, but many people will risk loosing several seconds, in order to gain just a couple.
You can expect more Yoshida Brothers in my next Akali video.

Purple side is harder when it comes to the technical tricks but has the benefits of a clearer shot at dragon and easier ganks up top due to the proximity to the red buff. My only response to people who have problems mimicking what I do is this: Practice. I had to practice to get to where I am now, so no one should be surprised or ashamed if they have to as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink Winkel View Post
hmmm you seem to give up the magic pen 9th point in the offense tree, is it possible to somehow get that mastery?
It is. Your homework is to construct an argument as to which mastery you would sacrifice a point in to pick it up and why.


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Interceptor402

Senior Member

02-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonclaw View Post
This is a very common misconception, that I would have hoped to not see in an Akali guide that stresses having 20AP from runes/masteries at level 1.
I don't see what "misconception" you are talking about. Everything said about Sheen is true: it helps burst/jungling, it's viable before Rylai's, and you should only build it with the intent of upgrading into Lich Bane.


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Burbinator

Senior Member

02-03-2011

quick question, since you are going pure AP, would will of the ancients theoretically be better than gunblade? It has a lot more spellvamp altho loses out on the active. But since you already have slow from rylais, i would think the 300 damage nuke every 60 seconds is not that big a deal in exchange for more AP and more spellvamp. What do you think?