Clever Girl: Jungling as Akali

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biomorph

Senior Member

01-25-2011

Love the new modifications you have done monty!
Cloth armor just seems a little meh because what on earth to do with it later on and selling items always seems little weird to me. And as you say GA comes way later on. But I agree that cloth is very good when jungling, it's a classic.
Have you considered Ninja Tabi as a possibility for boots? This is granted that they have a few physical bad guys of course at it does require a cloth. I usually use merc treads on akali my self however.
Just felt like suggesting it. I feel at least they need mentioning in your guide.


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AkitaNeru

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01-25-2011

I've found that you can sell the cloth armor later on without too much loss in terms of gold (you lose, like, 80 gold or something). It's not a big deal, and it helps against jungle ganks and whatnot.


Anyway, I'd never have even bothered trying to jungle like this if I hadn't seen this latest guide. I'd been testing out other paths, and they're all so much slower.


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Montegomery

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Senior Member

01-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0zzY View Post
Great guide and it really helped me out, thanks. I don't have all of the runes yet (cause of a lack of ip) but enough to be able to pull it off.

One thing I was contemplating is switching out an AP quint for an armor quint and one armor seal for one AP seal. It seems a little counterintuitive, and you lose 4.36 ability power for a 2.85 armor gain. With the three points in Archmage's you still get 20 ability power and the two points in brute force gives you 10 attack damage so both parts of the passive are still activated.

My main reason for thinking about this is so that two points from the defensive mastery tree could go towards increased experience gain, so that you get to level three before the blue golem as opposed to during.

I'm not sure how much slower this will make the overall jungling time (once again because I don't have the runes) but once the jungling phase is over the extra boost in leveling could potentially help you significantly... just a thought.
Leveling faster is primarily an early game advantage. The difference between a level 4 and a level 3 is far greater proportionally than the difference between a level 17 and a level 16. A lot of solo lanes are won based on who gets to level 6 first. Beyond that, 2.5% faster exp gain isn't all that amazing.

That said, your idea is a novel way to increase survivability without losing a passive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biomorph View Post
Love the new modifications you have done monty!
Cloth armor just seems a little meh because what on earth to do with it later on and selling items always seems little weird to me. And as you say GA comes way later on. But I agree that cloth is very good when jungling, it's a classic.
Have you considered Ninja Tabi as a possibility for boots? This is granted that they have a few physical bad guys of course at it does require a cloth. I usually use merc treads on akali my self however.
Just felt like suggesting it. I feel at least they need mentioning in your guide.
AkitaNeru has the most obvious answer. Nobody thinks twice about selling Doran's Blade once another item is needed in its place, but because Cloth Armor can be built into something a lot of people assume it should.

There's simply nothing wrong with either selling Cloth Armor the moment that inventory slot is needed, or holding onto it forever until the late late game. There's no rule in LoL which says you must build every item into something else ASAP, and you'll see plenty of high level players buy a Negatron Cloak or Chainmail and then sit on it for the rest of the game.

On rare occasions I will build the Cloth Armor into Ninja Tabi, but only against teams with at least 4 AD champions. Otherwise Merc Treads, Sorc Boots or Boots of Swiftness are all better options. Sometimes I've built Madred's Razors to establish better jungle control against heavy counter-jungling. That's a tough decision because you're essentially deciding between Madred's Razors, Sheen, Hextech Revolver or rushing Rylai's. You can't really build both Madred's and another small item before Rylai's or you'll push it back too far and severely hamper your crucial mid game.


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AkitaNeru

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01-26-2011

Did some testing with flat AP glyphs and I'm sad to say that I still can't match your jungle speed with my 9/21/0 setup. Fastest I've hit 6 so far is around 7 minutes, but I am now capable of following the exact same path you use (without the flat AP runes, I was forced to recall after the wraiths; couldn't make it through the wolf camp a second time).

After recalling at the wolf camp, the cloth armor is sold and replaced with a Doran's Blade to proc Akali's first passive (and with 21 armor off runes, and a maxed out defense tree, it's not all that necessary anymore). I grab a pair of boots, two or three health pots, and a sight ward if the other team is liable to try for dragon or one of the lanes has no wards. I was pleasantly surprised by how much money Akali has after her first recall.


edit: I'd like to note that running into the enemy jungler can really slow down the leveling process, though. Getting interrupted on red buff sucks.


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Witch Bernkastel

Senior Member

01-26-2011

Having given the new set up a try, it goes pretty smoothly, but I can't seem to get to the camps quiiiite as fast as your tutorial video, and while I know a 5-10 second total time differential isn't really that big a deal, it is annoying to me watching you reach golems, wraiths and wolves Right as they spawn after grabbing lizard like it's Magic or something, and then not being able to make it there quite in time myself, given that I have no idea where I'm losing those few, precious seconds.

I'd also like to note that the leash range on purple side's small golem camp seems to be *significantly* shorter than blue, given how far around that corner you seem to be able to drag them in your tutorial video. Any possibility to confirm this?


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AkitaNeru

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01-26-2011

I just went and tested the tether/leash ranges of the jungle creep, and I can confirm that the purple jungle does not follow you as far.


Actually, what appears to be happening is that jungle creep chase you further to the left than to the right of their spawn points.


A few comparison shots, where I'm standing at the furthest point before the minions lose aggro and return to their spawns:



For the first comparison shot, note the position of the light/lamp that's about four trees away from the twin golem spawn point. At the purple camp, you can drag the twin golems to a tiny bit past that light. At the blue camp, you can't even reach the light.

For the second comparison shot, the purple camp won't even follow you around the corner of their spawn before turning around. The blue camp, on the other hand, will follow you all the way around the corner and back over top their own spawn. It's worth noting that the furthest left you can go on the blue camp is the top left corner of their spawn area (a tiny bit below the two lilypad things on the ground in the top left of the blue image).




I had other comparison shots for the wraith camps, too, but didn't really feel like compiling them. The wraiths on the purple side will follow you if you walk towards the river and loop back towards mid (not actually going into the river). The wraiths on blue won't follow you around the corner towards the river.

Neither set of wraiths will follow you beyond the bush if you head towards mid, as they lose aggro once they enter it.





I also attached the twin golem comparison images, since Imageshack is being pretty unreliable for me.


edit: those images are smaller than I meant them to be. Ah, well.


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Montegomery

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Senior Member

01-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch Bernkastel View Post
Having given the new set up a try, it goes pretty smoothly, but I can't seem to get to the camps quiiiite as fast as your tutorial video, and while I know a 5-10 second total time differential isn't really that big a deal, it is annoying to me watching you reach golems, wraiths and wolves Right as they spawn after grabbing lizard like it's Magic or something, and then not being able to make it there quite in time myself, given that I have no idea where I'm losing those few, precious seconds.

I'd also like to note that the leash range on purple side's small golem camp seems to be *significantly* shorter than blue, given how far around that corner you seem to be able to drag them in your tutorial video. Any possibility to confirm this?
The biggest single place anyone loses time is when they recall to the fountain. Depending on the player it can easily take 3-15 seconds to shop, all of which is added directly to your jungle time. If you watch my video closely you'll see that I do a number of small tricks to eliminate this downtime almost entirely.
  • I organize the shop page while I recall, making it easy to buy the items I need without wasting time at the fountain navigating through menus.
  • I click on the minimap to send Akali to the Lizard camp the moment the recall finishes, before I even buy items.
  • I then open the shop and buy my boots and potions while Akali is already running toward her destination.

It can take some practice to execute this properly, but it's well worth perfecting. Any remaining discrepancies between my time and yours will probably be found in slight differences in precision of play, issues from latency, or very small things which can really only be identified through close inspection.

Regarding the leashing of the golems it's definitely more difficult on top. You'll probably take an extra hit compared to bottom because of it, but it's still worth doing. A big thanks to AkitaNeru for compiling those images.


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AkitaNeru

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01-31-2011

Here's an alternative set of masteries/runes for the same jungle path:

Masteries: 9/21/0 (requires 3 points in Archmage's Savvy and 3 points in Ardor to proc Akali's second passive)

Seals: Greater Seal of Potency x 9
Glyphs: Greater Glyph of Potency x 9
Marks: Greater Mark of Strength x 9

Quintessences: Greater Quint of Strength, Greater Quint of Wisdom, Greater Quint of Potency


You're slower on the first double golems by two seconds or so, but the rest of the path is basically the same. There might be an overall difference of ten or fifteen seconds, based on the lack of armor penetration, but considering that I made it back to each camp as they were spawning, I think it's not too bad. The defense tree grants you enough damage mitigation to run the path without much trouble, an extra 60 health (48 in the new patch), and a bonus 4% AP. With that bonus AP and 3 ranks in Archmage's Savvy, Akali's second passive procs at level 1.


The main reason I wanted to change the runes/masteries I was using was to keep my defensive spec'd masteries (makes Akali less squishy on dives, etc.) and to allow myself to carry something other than ignite for jungling. The improved ignite mastery forced me to take a point out of Archaic Knowledge, which was highly irritating, and ignite itself is a fairly cruddy summoner spell for ganking. I'd much rather take exhaust or ghost.



Now to just work on actually getting through the jungle quickly. Le sigh.


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TopMopFlop

Junior Member

02-01-2011

The switching of an AP quint made me think of replacing it with an XP quint so you dont have to put in 5 points into the utility tree. this makes it possible to go 21/9/0 or 9/21/0 or 14/15/1.

Mont: It seems like that if I read your guide, you'r not using smite. Maybe you did this on purpose, but I have to say It can also work. As I feel that when given Akali 2 summoner spells (ghost/exhaust/Ignite). Even in premade teleport could be handy.

However I dont like the flat AP glyphs, this results in:

9 ap/lvl glyphs
9 flat armor seals
9 ad marks
2 flat ap quint
1 xp quint

Smite/Ignite

14/16/0

cloth armor + 5 pots
It doesn't follow your quote, I do feel however having extra dmg and extra defense. making it a more all rounded build.


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Montegomery

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Senior Member

02-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkitaNeru View Post
Here's an alternative set of masteries/runes for the same jungle path:

Masteries: 9/21/0 (requires 3 points in Archmage's Savvy and 3 points in Ardor to proc Akali's second passive)

Seals: Greater Seal of Potency x 9
Glyphs: Greater Glyph of Potency x 9
Marks: Greater Mark of Strength x 9

Quintessences: Greater Quint of Strength, Greater Quint of Wisdom, Greater Quint of Potency


You're slower on the first double golems by two seconds or so, but the rest of the path is basically the same. There might be an overall difference of ten or fifteen seconds, based on the lack of armor penetration, but considering that I made it back to each camp as they were spawning, I think it's not too bad. The defense tree grants you enough damage mitigation to run the path without much trouble, an extra 60 health (48 in the new patch), and a bonus 4% AP. With that bonus AP and 3 ranks in Archmage's Savvy, Akali's second passive procs at level 1.


The main reason I wanted to change the runes/masteries I was using was to keep my defensive spec'd masteries (makes Akali less squishy on dives, etc.) and to allow myself to carry something other than ignite for jungling. The improved ignite mastery forced me to take a point out of Archaic Knowledge, which was highly irritating, and ignite itself is a fairly cruddy summoner spell for ganking. I'd much rather take exhaust or ghost.



Now to just work on actually getting through the jungle quickly. Le sigh.
Your setup is very similar to Interceptor402's, but I think his has the advantage. You both end up with effectively the same AP and AD, just enough to activate both passives, but his build also has 7 Armor that yours doesn't and costs less IP.

Ignite is actually a very good summoner spell for ganking. It's 150-200+ damage that can't be mitigated and counteracts potions/healing. The issue with Ignite is less that it isn't helpful when ganking, and more that going Smite/Ignite leaves you with no escape mechanisms while jungling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopMopFlop View Post
The switching of an AP quint made me think of replacing it with an XP quint so you dont have to put in 5 points into the utility tree. this makes it possible to go 21/9/0 or 9/21/0 or 14/15/1.

Mont: It seems like that if I read your guide, you'r not using smite. Maybe you did this on purpose, but I have to say It can also work. As I feel that when given Akali 2 summoner spells (ghost/exhaust/Ignite). Even in premade teleport could be handy.

However I dont like the flat AP glyphs, this results in:

9 ap/lvl glyphs
9 flat armor seals
9 ad marks
2 flat ap quint
1 xp quint

Smite/Ignite

14/16/0

cloth armor + 5 pots
It doesn't follow your quote, I do feel however having extra dmg and extra defense. making it a more all rounded build.
I always use Smite, always. I didn't mention it in the Summoner Spells section because there is no choice in the matter unless you're trolling. As I need to update that section anyway I'll add it in there to avoid further confusion.

If you prefer Ignite over the other options your build is practically ideal. I'd have to run tests to see which mastery setup I'd prefer (probably 21/0/9 or 14/16/0) and whether I'd change my glyphs.