What is Elo Hell?

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Energetic

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by t0ad5 View Post
I never claimed to be pro, but don't agree that "they wouldn't be down there to begin with" is always true.
I remember 4 of my placement matches:
1) I would say I didn't know how to play adc well. I remember buying 2 BF swords and having boots and being called out. I improved this.

2) I picked galio to counter a kass pick. I was doing well. I sent Kass running under his turret . Using noc ult, my junlger chased the lvl 6 kass, that I was beating, under his turret. Their jungler showed up mumu. I came back to try and assist my jungler to escape. Double kill for for kass into snowball roaming.

3) I picked rumble. Once it was last pick, he chose galio and said "top or feed" . I wasn't sure if we still lose elo for dodging at the time and figured it was better to try and lose than to just lose elo. I've learned to dodge trolls much better

4) 4vs5, the guy never showed up and I was 2vs1 adc at bot.

I would say my play caused 1 of 4 of these losses. I never claimed to be pro, only that I have been often unlucky, and I'm still trying to get to a place where I feel I belong.

Sorry, I assumed the you in your post was referring to me, since I was last to post.

You = Everyone claiming to be stuck in Elo Hell.


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adc

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Master Recruiter

10-23-2012

Mr. Sunlight, I invite you to take a look at my match history:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...2708416&page=3

First loss, Graves. Beat enemy Ezreal by 70 CS.
Second loss, Ezreal. 10/4/10 with 250 CS in a 34 minute game. Just let that sink in.
First win, Graves. This game went well.
Third loss, Graves. 254 CS in a 36 minute game. 50 ahead of Ashe.
Next 3 wins, all went well those games.

I'm having a ton of trouble getting my Elo up (though it is ever so slowly rising), despite the fact that I'm doing really, really well in my lanes. Elo hell exists, but people who are stuck at 1300 and only rated 1400 probably won't be able to carry themselves out of it.


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t0ad5

Senior Member

10-23-2012

I never claimed to be stuck there, only that I am mostly having to make up for bull**** that was beyond my control to get to somewhere that is more appropriate for me.


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Energetic

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD Bottom View Post
Mr. Sunlight, I invite you to take a look at my match history:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...2708416&page=3

First loss, Graves. Beat enemy Ezreal by 70 CS.
Second loss, Ezreal. 10/4/10 with 250 CS in a 34 minute game. Just let that sink in.
First win, Graves. This game went well.
Third loss, Graves. 254 CS in a 36 minute game. 50 ahead of Ashe.
Next 3 wins, all went well those games.

I'm having a ton of trouble getting my Elo up (though it is ever so slowly rising), despite the fact that I'm doing really, really well in my lanes. Elo hell exists, but people who are stuck at 1300 and only rated 1400 probably won't be able to carry themselves out of it.

If you win lanes with an adc, then it's as simple as carrying. You clearly cannot carry and should maybe switch to a different lane.


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Energetic

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by t0ad5 View Post
I never claimed to be stuck there, only that I am mostly having to make up for bull**** that was beyond my control to get to somewhere that is more appropriate for me.

You define it more or less.


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adc

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Master Recruiter

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaming Sunlight View Post
If you win lanes with an adc, then it's as simple as carrying. You clearly cannot carry and should maybe switch to a different lane.
Definitely. I can't carry because a teammate engages when I'm not there after I tell them not to, or the enemy team has stuns and stuns 4 of my team, or my team divebombs the enemy carry and leaves the enemy Jax to kill me without help.

All my fault. I'm the worst player ever and shouldn't be at a higher Elo.


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t0ad5

Senior Member

10-23-2012

You should try for mid/jungle for best chance to carry a game, because those roles alow for the most roaming and setting team up for a better position in early/mid game. . As you say, one is very reliant on team as adc. Not your fault.

Quote:
You define it more or less.
Generalizations aren't typically used for definitions.
"hearsay and conjecture are types of evidence", right?
I would say your attitude is what is wrong with this community, more or less.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD Bottom View Post
Mr. Sunlight, I invite you to take a look at my match history:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...2708416&page=3

First loss, Graves. Beat enemy Ezreal by 70 CS.
Second loss, Ezreal. 10/4/10 with 250 CS in a 34 minute game. Just let that sink in.
First win, Graves. This game went well.
Third loss, Graves. 254 CS in a 36 minute game. 50 ahead of Ashe.
Next 3 wins, all went well those games.

I'm having a ton of trouble getting my Elo up (though it is ever so slowly rising), despite the fact that I'm doing really, really well in my lanes. Elo hell exists, but people who are stuck at 1300 and only rated 1400 probably won't be able to carry themselves out of it.

First thing I see when I go to your Lolking profile is that over the past 7 days, your Elo has gone up by 46 points. You claim to be better than the people you're playing against, and your Elo is rising. To me, it looks like the system is working.

Next thing I notice, you've got 6 wins and 4 losses on your match history. You're playing as an AD or AP carry in all 10 matches, and in two of the matches you lost, you had fewer kills than deaths. In fact, in one of them, you had 0 kills to 7 deaths as an AP carry. Now, had you played better in these two matches, I can't guarantee you that you'd win, but can you really complain about your loss and your teammates when you finish with scorelines like this? Granted, they're not the worst score lines I've ever seen, but if you're truly better than everyone in your Elo bracket, as you claim to be, then there's no excuse for having a match like this. There simply isn't. It doesn't matter how bad your teammates were, because if you're better than everyone in your Elo bracket, you're better than everyone on the enemy team.

Now, your other 2 losses. Let's look at them.

You were Graves, you went 6/5/3, and had 263 cs.
The enemy Ezreal in the same match went 10/3/13, and had 196 cs.

Sure, you out-farmed him on cs, but it's not ENTIRELY about cs. When it comes to farm, it's also about kills and assists. These are sources of gold incomes. He's got almost double your kills and quadruple your assists. And when he gets kills, he denies you and your teammates gold and experience because they spend time dead. Meanwhile, he died 3 times to your 5, which means he was denied fewer gold and experience than you were.

While you played well enough to win, you didn't outplay the enemy ADC. If you're not even the best ADC in your match, how can you make the argument that you're the best ADC in your Elo bracket? And if you're not even the best ADC in your bracket, how can you claim you need to be in higher bracket.

Now let's look at your 10/4/10 Ezreal match (250cs). What did the enemy Sivir do? 9/4/15, and 232 cs. So, 1 less kill, same deaths, 5 more assists, and 18 more cs. That's honestly pretty dead even. Five assists can easily be worth as much gold as 1 kill and 18 cs. And while the one kill and 18 cs is probably slightly more gold, it's a negligible difference.


So in these two matches did you play well enough to win? Sure. But the enemy ADC was right there with you. It's not like you've completely shut out the enemy ADC, got yourself completely fed and denied the enemy player in your position from doing the same. And okay, maybe it's your 4 teammates fault that the enemy ADC is getting so many kills... but by the same token, isn't it the enemy top, mid, support, and jungle's fault for giving you so many kills? In which case, the enemy ADC is complaining that he lost despite playing well enough to win?

But the fact of the matter is, sometimes the teams are pretty even. Sometimes your teammates are slightly better than the enemy teammates. Sometimes your teammates are slightly worse. Sometimes your teammates are significantly worse, and sometimes your teammates are significantly better.

If you're in an Elo bracket significantly lower than where you belong, your skill level will be so high compared to the other 9 players, that it literally will not matter and you'll win every match.

If you're in an Elo bracket only slightly lower than where you belong, then your teammates will win/lose matches for you, despite your play (note, this means that you'll get credit for wins on occasions where you might not have out-played the enemy in your same role). But it's not about how often you win or lose because of your teammates. These wins and losses balance themselves out. It's about when the two teams are so evenly matched that the game will be decided on your individual play. You have to play at your absolute best every match because it's impossible to tell when one of these opportunities presents itself. And when these opportunities do present themselves and you play your best, you'll win these matches.

So perhaps 40% of the matches you're in are wins, no matter how bad you play, and 40% of the matches you're in are losses no matter how well you play, but the 20% in the middle are determined on how well you play. If you belong at a better Elo, you'll win every one of these matches in the middle, you'll have a 60/40 W/L ratio, and you'll raise in Elo.

For what it's worth, the lower your current Elo is in relation to your actual skill level is, the larger the percentage of matches in which YOU personally determine the outcome.

For a 2500 Elo player playing in a 500 Elo bracket, there maybe 1% of matches where he'll lose no matter what, and 1% of matches where he'll win even if he AFKs, but the other 98% of the matches will be purely on his ability.

For a 1400 Elo player playing in a 1300 Elo bracket, the numbers will probably look more like 45% win no matter what, 45% lose no matter what, and 10% are based on his play.


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Daays

Member

10-23-2012

I wouldn't say that ELO hell is the players fault. There are lots of people who feed in games/DC/ etc, it's not the players fault, it's really your teams.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaXxY View Post
I wouldn't say that ELO hell is the players fault. There are lots of people who feed in games/DC/ etc, it's not the players fault, it's really your teams.
And those players are on the enemy team 20% more often than they're on your team.