Twisted Dominionline

First Riot Post
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lastcenturion

Senior Member

10-24-2012

dominon is boring
tt is fun and fast.
when it isn't fast it becomes a "HOLY **** I'VE GOT TO WIN THIS"


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fiddlesticksssss

Senior Member

10-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcenturion View Post
dominon is boring
New Dominion is fast.
when it isn't fast it becomes a "HOLY **** I'VE GOT TO WIN THIS"
Fixed.


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Goggris

Senior Member

10-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by innervation View Post
Which part?

In addition to what Goggris wrote about starting gold, this change also increases champion diversity by giving mages the tools they need to farm in lane while being durable / speedy (boots cloth pots // d ring cloth pot // d ring hp pots, etc)

While shrines do have negatives, nothing he wrote was untrue.

Wards I agree with 1000%. My team won so many dragons > games by just buying more pink wards, and being the second / fourth / sixth to place them. I'm a little worried this will make sight items mandatory, but it's a trade I think I'm willing to make.

Sometimes you have to reset your expectations and come at it from a logical and fresh standpoint. If you cling too hard to an emotional argument you're never going to experience change, even if its positive. I love old TT, but I can recognize its shortcomings and understand what was done on the new version to alleviate these problems. The new map is needed if a competitive TT scene is ever going to exist.


I'm not saying every single thing is perfect, but its an amazing foundation.


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fiddlesticksssss

Senior Member

10-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggris View Post
Sometimes you have to reset your expectations and come at it from a logical and fresh standpoint. If you cling too hard to an emotional argument you're never going to experience change, even if its positive. I love old TT, but I can recognize its shortcomings and understand what was done on the new version to alleviate these problems. The new map is needed if a competitive TT scene is ever going to exist.


I'm not saying every single thing is perfect, but its an amazing foundation.
can't really have a competitive games based off 10-15 minute games. Unless its literally community made tournaments.


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Nicksiren

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Senior Member

10-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggris View Post
I love old TT, but I can recognize its shortcomings and understand what was done on the new version to alleviate these problems. The new map is needed if a competitive TT scene is ever going to exist.
I strongly disagree. Many of the new TT changes create less competitive/strategic gameplay, namely in the form of lack of wards and layout changes for Vilemaw and mid jungle.

I don't understand how some players think that lack of vision (wards) = a more aggressive map. The lack of vision promotes defensive laning -- any competitive player knows not to take unnecessary risks. When you watch pro matches do they forgo wards? No. They buy absurd amounts and for good reason. Simple put: unskilled gambles = unskilled gameplay, which by extension = less competitive map.

I'm not going to get too in depth with the layout changes here so I'll just touch on a few points. As mentioned earlier by me in the OP, the lack of jungling near Vilemaw creates less strategic juking/guessing when he is being fought by any enemy team. Since there is only one entrance on each side to the monster objective he will only be realistically contested in 1 scenario: after a dominant team fight. This takes even more away from junglers as this is the only monster buff on the map. The lack of routes mid map also create less diverse gameplay.

These two points alone (tentatively) create a much less competitive setting. With the removal of many of the strategic decisions and options available for players matches seem to be very derivative even at these early stages of the map testing. Tactics seem to be few and straightforward.


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Denagul

Junior Member

10-24-2012

To be honest, the shrines are controversial to Riot's efforts in giving teams that are behind a chance to come back into the game. If a team controls the 2 shrines they're WAAAY stronger damage-wise than the enemy, forming a very fast snowball...i suggest making the shrines weak enough to not matter in a game in a way that it's the best and/or only way to win. We as summoners like diversity and hate things like "tier lists" (i.e. one champion outclassing the other)


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Numbat

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Senior Member

10-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Hai guys.

I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).

Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).

That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.

Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^
The biggest thing I don't like about the altars is that they're super duper crazy strong. Having two altars not only gives your team a buff but reduces enemy gold from CS by ~20%. That's crazy. Vilemaw buff is worthless in comparison (though his gold is nice). Secondly, they're SUPER EASY TO TAKE. You can more or less sit on an altar, bluepill, and you'll cap it and disappear, and you can do it virtually any time your team nets an advantage even if it's just causing an enemy blue pill.

Most importantly though, this makes altars less risky and more powerful than putting damage on or taking a turret. Taking turrets in new TT actually isn't all that easy. But if you take altars you give your team an edge in fights *and* you kill their farming potential. Even if you can't take their altar you dare not risk pushing and backing late or they'll take yours. And since your own team can recap a single altar as often as every 3 minutes (not to mention defend it just 90 seconds after a cap) altars stick their fingers into virtually every play ever made on the map.

IMO as someone coming from SR it's just utterly bizarre. I feel like I spend 50% of the late game and 75% of the early game making plays to control the same two dang altars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlesticksssss View Post
can't really have a competitive games based off 10-15 minute games. Unless its literally community made tournaments.
I guess you've never heard of starcraft (brood war or SC2) or fighting games. Brood war especially was hugely successful as more or less the first esport ever and some BW games even at tournament levels could end in 6 minutes. With shorter games you can also just play more matches.


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Soup44

Senior Member

10-24-2012

So basically the altars are here to stay no matter what we think of them. Good to know.


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fiddlesticksssss

Senior Member

10-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbat View Post
The biggest thing I don't like about the altars is that they're super duper crazy strong. Having two altars not only gives your team a buff but reduces enemy gold from CS by ~20%. That's crazy. Vilemaw buff is worthless in comparison (though his gold is nice). Secondly, they're SUPER EASY TO TAKE. You can more or less sit on an altar, bluepill, and you'll cap it and disappear, and you can do it virtually any time your team nets an advantage even if it's just causing an enemy blue pill.

Most importantly though, this makes altars less risky and more powerful than putting damage on or taking a turret. Taking turrets in new TT actually isn't all that easy. But if you take altars you give your team an edge in fights *and* you kill their farming potential. Even if you can't take their altar you dare not risk pushing and backing late or they'll take yours. And since your own team can recap a single altar as often as every 3 minutes (not to mention defend it just 90 seconds after a cap) altars stick their fingers into virtually every play ever made on the map.

IMO as someone coming from SR it's just utterly bizarre. I feel like I spend 50% of the late game and 75% of the early game making plays to control the same two dang altars...



I guess you've never heard of starcraft (brood war or SC2) or fighting games. Brood war especially was hugely successful as more or less the first esport ever and some BW games even at tournament levels could end in 6 minutes. With shorter games you can also just play more matches.
Those competitive games "as far as i seen starcraft" are really ****ing fun to watch, and actually have strategy. As nick said above, there is less strategy on this map which means this isn't even close to a competitive map, and early game if you control both altars you are pretty much going from a snowball to jackfrost the snowman.


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fiddlesticksssss

Senior Member

10-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soup44 View Post
So basically the altars are here to stay no matter what we think of them. Good to know.
Yeah pretty much. Now i have no friends to play with on Live LoL, because i told them about the new map, they came over and tried it then said they are quitting. Later that day i find out they sold their accounts "not going to name them" and have started playing a game called "smite"?