Twisted Dominionline

First Riot Post
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Destraega

Member

10-27-2012

;_;...


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Nicksiren

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Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destraega View Post
1.The map is twice as small
2.Jungling is no longer a viable option
3.No wards but free wards for certain classes
4.Ganking no longer takes skill or positioning
5.No skill needed for.. positioning other then combat.
6.Alot of good viable items disappeared
7.No more turtling
8.No more good comebacks from turtling which was a huge part of the old TT
9.No more sense of accomplishment from coming back after turtling
10.Dominion style gameplay (ya i said it)
11.No sneaking dragon.. or giant spider or whatever you wanna call it
12.Speed shrine makes no sense.
13.Why have a speed shrine or even nodes.. this isnt supposed to be dominion
14.Our beloved 3v3 version of SR is now gone
15.Map is twice as small...
16.My head hurts.
17.Please give us our map back
18.Atleast make it an additional map
19.WHHHHYYYYY?!?!?!
Hahahaha... haha. ha.. hrm. hmmmm........

*Single tear*


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Haeval

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destraega View Post
1.The map is twice as small
2.Jungling is no longer a viable option
3.No wards but free wards for certain classes
4.Ganking no longer takes skill or positioning
5.No skill needed for.. positioning other then combat.
6.Alot of good viable items disappeared
7.No more turtling
8.No more good comebacks from turtling which was a huge part of the old TT
9.No more sense of accomplishment from coming back after turtling
10.Dominion style gameplay (ya i said it)
11.No sneaking dragon.. or giant spider or whatever you wanna call it
12.Speed shrine makes no sense.
13.Why have a speed shrine or even nodes.. this isnt supposed to be dominion
14.Our beloved 3v3 version of SR is now gone
15.Map is twice as small...
16.My head hurts.
17.Please give us our map back
18.Atleast make it an additional map
19.WHHHHYYYYY?!?!?!

My head hurts too... I have been trying to play 5v5's, but solo ques give you so many trolls.... There are still trolls in 3v3, but there's less of a chance, seeing as you're 1/6 of the team comp, rather than 1/10.

Honestly, that's why i played 3v3 to begin with, before i grew to love it.

Now I have this sinking, hatred feeling toward Riot whenever I think of what they've done to my 3v3 map. >.<


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Alaric11

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Hai guys.

I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).

Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).

That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.

Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^
except for the fact that those people who say "omg the new map mode sucks it's a dominion/TT hybrid" are 100% correct.

Sorry but how can you NOT expect a knee jerk reaction.

Imagine if on the day that Dominion was released Riot decided to shelve Summoners Rift forever. You can probably imagine the hell storm the players would have unleashed. Now imagine that some Riot employee came on the forums(after 2 days of completely ignoring the problem) and told the players that their "knee jerk" reactions weren't constructive.

Talk about adding insult to injury.


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bandaidsaregood

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Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Hai guys.

I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).

Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).

That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.

Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^

Vesh is the red poster in every 3's complaint thread... Is it wront to assume either he drew the short straw on who moderates what forum, or this map was his pet project?


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Frost787

Member

10-27-2012

Riot please just make this new design a new map and bring the old TT back!


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Haeval

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Hai guys.

I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).

Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).

That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.

Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^
So, if you are looking for reasons why players think the new map feels like Dominion, I can help you, I think. The same issue has come up in a couple other threads.


1. In dominion you are encouraged to jump in and fight from the beginning, taking emphasis away from laning, and putting more emphasis on ganking. It's about the same on the new TT, due to how much the capture points create a snowballing effect for the team that wins the first capturing encounter.

If you ignore the capture points, or even if you don't send all of your team there, from level 1, and every 90 seconds after that, you're probably going to get snowballed into the ground. If taking damage while on the capture point slowed the capture, it might be different. Then skill shots/ranged champs might be viable in play. As it is, you need everyone there, on the pad, fighting, which necessitates my next point: tanky ad.

2. In dominion you are forced to get bruiser/tanky builds, and support/assassin builds are impossible to use (provided you're against a competent team). Same with the new TT. One of the complaints about the old TT was that tanky ad dominated the game. Now, so far, it is even more that way than it ever was before. Only now, there are fewer chances of escaping if you DON'T have tanky ad champs.

Granted, there are other methods of team play in dominion that don't necessitate EVERYONE having tanky ad, but the only other method I can see/have experienced is to either have huge cc (also limiting champ selection) with other champs, or ... well, let's face it: huge cc. Even assassins tend to build way tanky in dominion if they play it. That, or go balls-out, taking big risks and hoping their reflexes/mechanics are faster than their opponents. It's a gamble, and it sometimes works, but mostly you need cc or a tanky build.

3. In Dominion, you have items that encourage quick encounters and constant ganks, etc. Same with the new items in the new TT. I said this on another post, and I will put 2 items I mentioned there in here as well, to give examples. I don't remember all of the other new items, and I can't claim that all of them do this, but let's assume that tanky ad dominates the game....here's my excerpt from the other post.

EDIT - Sorry; I was mistaken here. I remembered wrong, below. Only the wriggles item/lack of wards applies. i was mixing the memory of 2 other items for the tanky ad one. The Warmogs replacement only awards hp regen on assists/kills, which encourages teamfights, even though it's a tank item, and giving spell vamp/armor pen/hp in one item screams tanky bruiser. (On a side note, I sort of like the new deathcap, but not to REPLACE the original rabadon's. There's been a lot of replacing going on here, though, so go figure...)

"As for the items forcing team fights, the main reason for this is lack of wards. Even wriggles has been replaced with a temporary, low-range invis-breaker. This encourages ganks/teamfights, because you can't see skirmishes coming, so you are forced to stay close to your team or the turret. Since you need to take the capture points to win (I still say this is--or will be--a must in ranked games), that means you run around with your team.

I forget the names of the new items, but another example would be the new item that gives you 200-300 hp on enemy kill. It's a dps item, similar to yomu's ghost blade. It could be argued that it's a diving-item, or at least that was the intention, considering it gives armor pen as well. However, in reality it will be used more as a bruiser-teamfight item. It lets a bruiser stay alive in a team fight even longer, because enemy assists ALSO give hp."


4. In Dominion you have capture points that need to be defended to win the game. In the new TT, you must capture 2 points to win the game--not because it's the objective, but because if the other team gets these points, every 90 seconds or so, you lose. That forces you to lane less and teamfight more, even from level 1, the same as dominion. I mentioned this in the first point as well, but I think it needs to be restated.

5. The summoner portal is TOO far, now, away from everything else, just like Dominion. No one is gonna be able to defend their own base, even on the same level as Summoner's Rift, with the portal that far away. Maybe if the fountain laser attacked enemies right at the beginning of the ramp it would be better, but that's not the case, and the laser seems weaker, for some reason, than the old TT laser.

What this feels like is the same aspect of Dominion, where you can retreat to safety, only at one of the capture points, and that's gonna do nothing to help you win the game. Pretty much, you defend until you die, which is fast, even under the turret, when the enemy team has snowballed their way from the capture points. There is no way to regain your footing or stop your enemy's momentum. Maybe if there were 2 turrets by the nexus, or if the turret had increased hp/damage, but even then you probably couldn't defend it that well.

The summoner portal is removed from the game so completely, IN YOUR OWN BASE, that you have no way of defending even a semi-competent enemy that's been fed from the capture points.




I'm not trying to flame anything, but I'm just explaining why this map screams "dominion" to me and a LOT of people I know--people that have played TT a lot as well, before this.

I hope it helps.

P.S. - Personally, I have nothing against the new TT as a new map. It seems like it would be fun to people who like Dominion, for instance, but it isn't a Twisted Treeline map. It's not the same feel at all. It doesn't even feel like a smaller version of Summoner's Rift, which is why I liked the old TT. It feels like something we loved has been taken away, when we were promised it was only going to be altered/fixed.


@Vesh


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Come Touch Me

Junior Member

10-27-2012

My bad i posted twice.


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Come Touch Me

Junior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Hai guys.

I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).

Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).

That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.

Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^
Hey there! I'm a new player in the league community since (February 2012). The first game I played was Dominion, second was summoner's rift (which is the classic) <-- No special feelings about that map, but when I played twisted treeline, oh my god! This map had made me love this game SO much! I've continuously played it learning all the game mechanics in it, and I was such a noob in league, but due to the love I have for that map I learned everything so fast!

I was super excited for the new changes to the twisted treeline when you guys introduced it, but when I logged on beta and tried it, man it felt like a new game. The reason I used to play Twisted Treeline had been destroyed, let me give you all my reasons why I dislike the new map.

My old purpose of playing 3 v 3 is to have a smooth gameplay, no stress. I used to mostly go top lane and carry the game later on because I could farm safely, and I could think of what will happen next. In this new map, ganking has been extraordinarily dynamic. You do not expect what is coming after you and you cannot farm unless you play too safe, everything is easily exposed and there is nothing "safe" beside sitting next to your tower. Portability has been slightly reduced so three people grouping up too fast getting 20% speed then flashing and exhausting / stun boom one is down. Keep that up and you'll get plenty of gold. Having two altars taken by a team that is ALREADY ahead of you means this game is over. Additional gold and damage for a team that is already ahead of you man that is far too much! This all happens in the early five minutes of the game. If one team gets fed, you gotta struggle for another eight/seven minutes to surrender, because you know that once they start there is no end for them. If you can check my win rate on shyvana normals @ Twisted Treeline it could possibly be 80-90% for like 60-80 fights. What I think this map needs is more personal space for the team. Bring us back those walls and wards. Make this more strategic rather than filled of ganks. Twisted Treeline is the mini Summoners Rift, not a place to gank most of the time.

What I think this map needs is,

1- Removing the speed bonus in the middle and the altars.
2- Slightly increasing the size of the map again
3- Adding more walls.

Let me share with you what I think this map needs visually,
*******http://i.imgur.com/WFSdK.jpg********
I'd say remove the right and left altar, and replace the middle speed altar with another that grants the team that captures it benefits, for example, if you capture it you gain 100 Gold + 10% ap/ad. Capturing it requires 4 seconds, so capturing it becomes easier (if a team is losing they can get another chance, rather than losing hope).

and those two yellow lines aside the mid altar = Vertical bushes rather than Horizontal, and the same for the bottom bush to be moved to those two sides rather than the middle, and also the same for the rest areas.

As for the black line, I think you should close the gap in there and add a wall so that people in the right and left side feel more secure rather than exposed and easily ganked. and for the altars, I have no idea what they should be replaced with, but i think a random attack speed/ move speed mob should appear in the middle just like the old one.

And most importantly, I want wards back, wards make people win / lose. Blocking them is a mistake :/

Please answer me back riot, I want your feedback. Thanks!


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Squallian

Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Come Touch Me View Post
What I think this map needs is,

1- Removing the speed bonus in the middle and the altars.
2- Slightly increasing the size of the map again
3- Adding more walls.

So, you pretty much just want old TT?

Talk about counter productive criticism.