Twisted Dominionline

First Riot Post
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Dysexlic

Junior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venova View Post
Let me sum up what seems to be a majority of the sentiments:

We love the new map
We love the old map
We want them both, not one replacing the other - at least keep the "old" TT available as a custom game option. No matchmaking, keep that for the new TT/SI map, since it would be confusing to newer players to encounter 2 versions of the "same" map, and keeping the old TT as custom would prevent fracturing because most people will probably play the new map. But the old one can stay there for customs for dedicated the TT communtity who loves the map.

ok. some of you love the new map. Personally I hate it. If I wanted play dominion I'd play dominion. new TT is an abomination. In fact I'm so dissapointed I dont even feel like playing LoL anymore. TT was the only thing I really liked about it, short games, quick ganks and lots of fun. now its all twisted (see what I did there) into some ****ty dominion-like map. I played dominion twice since it came out. first to try it out, and second to give it another chance.
Why not have people pick their 3v3 map? TT or "new" TT (even tho the only thing left from old map is that its 3v3.
To Sum up. I'm pissed off. Give me my TT back. this is bull****.
thank you for reading.


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Argothes

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

As a person who primarily plays Twisted Treeline and finds it refreshing to carry only 2 people instead of 4. I hate the fact that I cannot ward now... Seriously, Shaco, Zyra and Teemo just got a trillion times more dangerous in my mind. The stealth-detecting mist item has made itself irrelevant with the lack of wards to remove. Since the majority of champions in TT (or at least in my comps) are melee based, it'll be absolutely useless to use the mist to destroy JiBs, plants and shrooms... If I'm able to tip my two cents, I would tell riot to re-invoke buffs and give us wards... PLEASE!!!


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Angelus Veneno

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Let me fix this whole forum.

GET RID OF THE ALTARS.


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Brodhi

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicksiren View Post
I strongly disagree. Many of the new TT changes create less competitive/strategic gameplay, namely in the form of lack of wards and layout changes for Vilemaw and mid jungle.

I don't understand how some players think that lack of vision (wards) = a more aggressive map. The lack of vision promotes defensive laning -- any competitive player knows not to take unnecessary risks. When you watch pro matches do they forgo wards? No. They buy absurd amounts and for good reason. Simple put: unskilled gambles = unskilled gameplay, which by extension = less competitive map.

I'm not going to get too in depth with the layout changes here so I'll just touch on a few points. As mentioned earlier by me in the OP, the lack of jungling near Vilemaw creates less strategic juking/guessing when he is being fought by any enemy team. Since there is only one entrance on each side to the monster objective he will only be realistically contested in 1 scenario: after a dominant team fight. This takes even more away from junglers as this is the only monster buff on the map. The lack of routes mid map also create less diverse gameplay.

These two points alone (tentatively) create a much less competitive setting. With the removal of many of the strategic decisions and options available for players matches seem to be very derivative even at these early stages of the map testing. Tactics seem to be few and straightforward.
1) If you are playing defensively, you are letting the enemy team have VIlemaw control and control over your altar/jungle. You can argue about that all you want, but having played Shadow Isles, I can say for a fact that you need to be active in the jungle even if you aren't the jungler. All 3 members of the team needs to be a walking ward so that you know where the enemy team is at all times.

2) Vilemaw placement is perfect. On TT, Dragon was so close to top lane that ADCs could solo him at certain stages of the game. Jayce could Q him in Cannon stance then Q over in Hammer stance. That is overpowered. Not only that, but you could gank top lane FROM Dragon pit (if you are a blink champion), which I think was the reason for putting Vilemaw so far north.

There isn't any jungle by Baron, yet there isn't any "guessing" when an enemy team is doing it (since you like to bring up what competitive 5s players do as if it relates to 3s in any form). You'll know when the enemy team is doing Vilemaw, trust me. When you get aced? Vilemaw. When all 3 of you are taking their altar? Vilemaw. It's just like Baron, and for that I am happy. It was silly to have a boss on TT with such an important buff be soloable by almost ever bruiser after level 6.

On the context of the Jungle, I went ahead and made a diagram using the map Riot has given ( http://i.imgur.com/I65jQ.jpg ). The red circles/lines are ways the enemy jungler can gank you. The orange lines are escape paths for the laner. I do not think Wards are needed, as there are such a low amount of open gank points compared to old TT, where top lane had 5+.


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Vsin

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Hai guys.

I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).

Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).

That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.

Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^
I'm a pretty big fan of Dominion as well, so I agree that the map doesn't feel dominiony.

However...SPEED SHRINE WHY? It's alright in Dominion because of the sheer size of the map - not having speed shrines means that the already bad mobility creep gets absurdly out of hand. However...TT is a very, very small map. If you touch the middle, you can basically hit anywhere outside the base within the duration of the buff. By contrast, the Dominion speed shrines only cover roughly 1/3rd of the map area at most.

On top of that, this makes the lanes absurdly vulnerable to ganks. Whereas in Dominion, people will usually hang around a given point, TT players are generally in the middle of their lanes (if not roaming). The location of the speed shrine means that everybody gets a free gap closer, and compounded with the lack wards it means that you either need Teemo or you get ganked every time you hit the midway point.


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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by innervation View Post
Which part?

In addition to what Goggris wrote about starting gold, this change also increases champion diversity by giving mages the tools they need to farm in lane while being durable / speedy (boots cloth pots // d ring cloth pot // d ring hp pots, etc)

While shrines do have negatives, nothing he wrote was untrue.

Wards I agree with 1000%. My team won so many dragons > games by just buying more pink wards, and being the second / fourth / sixth to place them. I'm a little worried this will make sight items mandatory, but it's a trade I think I'm willing to make.
The part where it changes the base foundation of TT rather than fixing the problems that were there such as random jungle, minion kiting and the broke ass lazers.

IMO they didn't need to speed the game up through anything other than removing the minion kiting into fountain. That would have been plenty to "speed" it up. I can't tell you how many games I have had where we had towers and innhibs by 15 minutes but it got drug out to 40 minutes because all 3 of them could just drag our minoins into their spawn and heal the damage 2 steps from the fight.


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Nicksiren

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Hey, you guys remember that time that Riot ignored all the feedback that players gave them when they were asked to respond to the Twisted Treeline changes, and then proceeded to put it on the live servers with almost zero changes? Yeah, I remember that too.

And here I thought that actually presenting legitimate points along with explanations for those points in this thread would get us more than just a formality response from a Riot.


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hardyharhar6

Junior Member

10-25-2012

Where's RiotNome???


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WrathgarWarlord

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Hai guys.

I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).

Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).

That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.

Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^
We just want the old TT to still be a playable map... why is this too much to ask for? Seriously?


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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodhi View Post
1) If you are playing defensively, you are letting the enemy team have VIlemaw control and control over your altar/jungle. You can argue about that all you want, but having played Shadow Isles, I can say for a fact that you need to be active in the jungle even if you aren't the jungler. All 3 members of the team needs to be a walking ward so that you know where the enemy team is at all times.

2) Vilemaw placement is perfect. On TT, Dragon was so close to top lane that ADCs could solo him at certain stages of the game. Jayce could Q him in Cannon stance then Q over in Hammer stance. That is overpowered. Not only that, but you could gank top lane FROM Dragon pit (if you are a blink champion), which I think was the reason for putting Vilemaw so far north.

There isn't any jungle by Baron, yet there isn't any "guessing" when an enemy team is doing it (since you like to bring up what competitive 5s players do as if it relates to 3s in any form). You'll know when the enemy team is doing Vilemaw, trust me. When you get aced? Vilemaw. When all 3 of you are taking their altar? Vilemaw. It's just like Baron, and for that I am happy. It was silly to have a boss on TT with such an important buff be soloable by almost ever bruiser after level 6.

On the context of the Jungle, I went ahead and made a diagram using the map Riot has given ( http://i.imgur.com/I65jQ.jpg ). The red circles/lines are ways the enemy jungler can gank you. The orange lines are escape paths for the laner. I do not think Wards are needed, as there are such a low amount of open gank points compared to old TT, where top lane had 5+.
The funny thing is, almost everything you listed is a reason I dislike the new TT. Just because it is new, or a percieved flaw to some (lol gank paths from jungle OP???WTF???) doesn't actually make it a problem for all.