My thoughts on the new TT

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Shadow Dragon

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10-19-2012

I've played a couple of games on the new TT and just wanted to express my thoughts on the reworked map. First and foremost, thank you Riot for giving the Twisted Treeline some love at long last. As part of the TT community I long felt like the neglected second cousin to Summoner's Rift. The new nexus design, the new graphics and atmosphere...superb. However...

I can't really say that I am a fan of the map in its current iteration. It is certainly reminiscent of dominion and has become an entirely tactical game mode rather than the old map which had both strategic and tactical elements to it. Therefore I am quite glad that Riot is (hopefully) going to tweak the map during its beta phase.

The new jungle is much too sparse and bland, the cover offered is much too minimal and the altars and speed shrine take up too much space. The fact that there is only the one jungle makes skirmish fighting inevitable and basically turns the game into a flurry of early deaths and respawns followed by punishing death timers and a game ending push.

The old TT allowed for that same type of skirmish, but had the fall-back of trying to engender a team fight by positioning and tactics. This new map throws that out the window.

As I stated previously, the altars and shrine are too big and the way they currently work is cumbersome and prone to extending the snowball effect for the winning team. I'd rather have smaller, single figure, single figure buff altars with a cooldown then the way they currently work. Have them cycle thru a series of buffs so that they benefit multiple roles during the game.

I don't mind the speed shrine though I find it too large and would prefer it not be always on...an alternating fog of war when on, no fog when off would add an interesting mechanic given that wards are no longer available. You can see the gank coming when they don't have the speed burst, but know to guard your back when the area is fogged.

YOU NEED A TOP JUNGLE.
You have taken a map that had four distinct areas and given us a map with only three in return. The fact that you cannot move anywhere on the map without the high possibility of running into the enemy team is frustrating in the extreme.

I have two suggestions...make a bottom jungle in the area where the bottom lane goes ^ in the middle...perhaps with a creep camp or two for added variety...or make the old top jungle around the VileMaw camp with its own brush and creep camps (perhaps)

Give us some method of developing strategy rather than the (pardon the implied language) s#!t show that the new TT is currently.


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Twilight Monkey

Senior Member

10-20-2012

Bump


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Shadow Dragon

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10-21-2012

It appears that the general consensus to the new map from the old TT players is that if this is going to replace TT it needs some work.

If Riot chooses to keep both maps they must still implement some small fixes to the old map such as the disparity between nexus lasers, pathing, and the fact that skill shots from the inhib steps are several degrees off from the skillshot indicator.


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Luego

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Senior Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonAris View Post
I've played a couple of games on the new TT and just wanted to express my thoughts on the reworked map. First and foremost, thank you Riot for giving the Twisted Treeline some love at long last
Agreed.

My thoughts thus far:
1. Death timers are ridiculously short early. It feels like dominion, where your death doesn't matter at all, and you're free to throw your body at objective after objective.
2. Teamfights are artificial and forced. You simply can't choose to avoid them, because the alters are too important. And giving vision on the alters again forces teamfights, while simultaneously taking away strategy. One of the most enjoyable things about TT is dragon control. No ward planted yet, or having a battle of pinkwards? Quickly grabbing a dragon before the other team reacts or notices can change a game. If the other team does it to me, I even enjoy and respect that.
3. The lack of a top jungle makes it obvious when you're going to Spider, and forces continuous conflict. It also kills a revenue stream, and eliminates strategy in that fashion. Looking at the post-game charts on a TT game is fun - and seeing who controlled the most neutrals often equates directly to the W/L
4. Items obviously need tweaking. In a serious way. Especially the AP Madreds on Singed/Teemo/Brand/DoT
5. Lack of wards again takes out strategy. Map control is a HUGE part of SR,and TT. Why eliminate it and force a "skirmish" gametype? Again, we already have Dominion for that.

I love old TT. Yes, it has problems. But they're EASY fixes. This is a "baby with the bathwater" solution. My thoughts on old TT:
Equalize lasers. Scale dragon throughout the game. Normalize the jungle. Make minions immune to laser. Add a minor bluebuff (maybe not even needed if you want to incorporate the new items). Double the width of some of the walls to limit mobility a bit.

I want to like the new TT. I love the fact that it's getting attention. However, it feels like it is now intended to be "SR lite" rather than "SR for teams of 3".

TLDR - 3's should not be a "for fun" mode. We already have Dominion for that. Old TT has as much - or more - room for both strategy and tactics that SR has. It's just scaled down for 3 teammates rather than 5. SR is not a continuous roaming killfest, but an intricate game with multiple strategic options. Unless the intention is also to make SR more "fun" by adding shrines, boosts, and the like (in which case that's fine if that's the direction you're taking the game, although I disagree) please don't change TT so drastically.

Please, please, please, do not remove TT. Keep both. I don't care if it will fractionalize the playerbase. You say that TT has some of the most enthusiastic and devoted players? If you believe that, believe that we'll happily wait a little longer for queue times to play the mode we love. And if you can do some of the minor fixes above, we'll love it even more


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

10-22-2012

I was actually really excited about the new TT layout, as someone who couldn't appreciate the old TT.

Then, I learned about the altars and speed shrine. I play Dominion exclusively, and those objectives seem horribly out of place in TT.


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Heron Blade

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10-22-2012

The one thing that bothers me about the alters, is that you can always see them. I want them to put it under the fog of war. that alone will make a big difference.


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Shadow Dragon

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10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apri0ri View Post
The one thing that bothers me about the alters, is that you can always see them. I want them to put it under the fog of war. that alone will make a big difference.
If this version of the three's map is here to stay I agree that the altars should be covered by the fog of war. If one team is holding an altar that the other team swipes then they will get an announcement because they lose the buff provided. That is more than enough.

I still think they need to reintroduce additional jungle space. The fact the map has only one jungle rather than two reduces the "tactical/strategic" spacing and movement significantly.

I'm very disappointed they went to live release with nothing more than item tweaks given the amount of map feedback offered on the TT and PBE forums.


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Windguid

Member

10-25-2012

I have been foreseeing that riot, promotes, snowballing, for the fact that they dislike, strategy, tactics and different gameplay.. for example they disliked that supports can huddle to win, they dislike that stealth can wait for the right moment to gank, they dislike "idle gameplay" This all promotes just a tryn, or any other dps like volly to get penta's and snowball their way thru just because of the simple fact that he can rush in there, and kill a couple of people. Think about it, its not hard to see, that Riot is promoting what they call "continuous gameplay" whilst it is taking out strategy and tactics to the game. It will be Riots doom, and later on, they are just going to be another game that got washed out, and no one plays anymore.. I honestly have felt this way for a while. i dont mean to be mean or harsh to anyones gameplay strategy, but they need to realize that not everyone has the same fighting style... if that was the case, League would be boring. it IS getting to the point where people can tell how a game can pan out, simply because of the team comp, rather than the players skill and strategy and thats sad. It takes the element of surprise, and learning new strategies out of the game. and to me i am devastated.