[Official Petition] Let new TT be a new map by itself.

First Riot Post
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HeroProtagonist

Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omesh View Post
At the same time I think Riot would be in a weird place if they had two 3v3 maps with super-similar styles of gameplay and which support similar team comps and favor similar champions.Maybe that's just me.
A workable mechanic would be to allow 3v3 players to vote on which map they prefer at the start of the match. Of course the new map would have to be called something other than "Twisted Treeline" (wich of course it should be anyway - you can call Connecticut California, but that doesn't make it California, and New Coke was never actually Coke, was it?)


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Omesh

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroProtagonist View Post
A workable mechanic would be to allow 3v3 players to vote on which map they prefer at the start of the match. Of course the new map would have to be called something other than "Twisted Treeline" (wich of course it should be anyway - you can call Connecticut California, but that doesn't make it California, and New Coke was never actually Coke, was it?)
Not a bad idea, but if the problem has to do with resources and cost of maintaining both maps on the same client...anyways.

Still puzzled over the argument that the two Treelines are like night and day when they're very, very similar. Yeah, there are differences, but they're fundamentally the same map.


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liinpason

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Senior Member

11-08-2012

Signed


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madf0x

Member

11-08-2012

Signed. This new map is too easy to face roll people. I like it, but I want to play the old one too.


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Exqzr

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Omesh,

Really, Your view is from your own experience. Fine

I simply reported what the community is feeling, by a large majority.

And I say these things in contrast to the experience the Classic TT provided for us.

My experience? Queue times are already about the same as the OLD TT. This is not going well for RIOT.

This thread has received more upvotes than any thread in TT history. My own post on the subject has received 75 upvotes. Which is huge for the number of views.

The announcement of sam's stream -35. Oh and it comes with a controversy.

It goes on and on.

IF you like the new map so much, play it. Just get on board with the right thing to do and vote to keep them both. You're entire post reads ... "I've already made up my mind here but convince me otherwise. Waste of both our time. Only reason I tried was because you were the only non ADD (imo) who has reported liking the new map better than the classic. Heck there is no reason you can like BOTH. And yeah some people LIKE DOMINION TOO! Good for them.

I can't see it, I never will. I feel like I have to throw up every time I finish to game of the new TT. Like getting off a roller coaster ride that's just a little too fast, a little too curvy and a little too jarring.

If you want me to share with you RIOT's agenda. I might if you msg me in game. Not here and not now. In the meantime go read my posts from early this year regarding the Tribunal.

Omesh, People are Leaving TT. Good people. They might still be playing LoL in SR and they are being replaced by new Trolls. This is a community problem yes but in the sense that the new map has changed the TT community, it is the new maps fault.

If Riot had said every thing they have said and instead put at the end "so we are moving the Classic TT to custom games only" (Most) everyone would be happy. We could debate in "fun" which map had more merit. But what we have is a very split, very unhappy community. The very thing RIOT says they did NOT want to do. Their "party line" on this is nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omesh View Post
You and I agree here, though I'm incredulous over how you downrate the problem of turtling. Anyways. Let's go on, because we agree on little else.

I'm going to shorten this list by taking everything "Riot agrees with" and ignoring it. When I talk about "problems", I'm talking about intrinsic flaws in gameplay and design-- not bug fixes. Around half of your "problems" are issues of balance that inevitably come up when new content is release; almost all of their newly released champs have these sorts of issues, and all of the maps have had issues of the same persuasion at one point or another in their lifetimes.

So I can't really take half of these seriously, because they're the sorts of bugs and imbalances that should be expected from Beta content-- because remember, this is the Beta. I expect there to be balance issues that need to be tweaked. But that's not what I'm asking for from you.

Moving on, then:

Strongly disagree, but I know that the reduced size is going to be a problem for some people. That said, we're not talking about a huge difference between the old map and the new map, but I think this is just a matter of opinion. I will admit that the layout/dimension of the map took some time for me to get used to.

I actually think that this is partially an issue that falls under altar management/maintenance, but the entire point of the map is to be quick and to foster early team-fights (which, honestly, were "forced" just as much in the old map, too).

I don't necessarily disagree-- but again, I think that has to do with how the map has been balanced. And it's only in Beta stages.

I think it's kind of childish, frankly, because of all the Darius's I've rolled with, only one has actually done my team any good. Thing about Darius is that he doesn't play himself, and most Darius players in my experience just think they win by default based on who they pick at the champion select screen.

I don't think there are more OP champs here, I think the OP champs are different. But you and I both seem to agree that this is an issue that spans both the new and the old map, and I think that might have to do more with champion balance than map balance (and, frankly, itemization).

Problem with the playerbase, not the map.

I haven't really had this experience, but I've never felt for a second that the lanes are too tight in comparison to how tight they originally were. Again, close-quarters is the name of the game.

...get a better computer? Sorry, being a wiseguy there, but I don't really have a better answer to that. My computer can handle it fine on the settings I typically play the game on.

I haven't missed the wards for one second, though I wouldn't mind getting them back in a far more limited capacity. I think if you're paying attention to the map and using Lantern items and things like Shrooms and Clairvoyance regularly, you're going to be in fine standing as far as map/jungle control goes.

Another altar issue. Seems like this is the common denominator here. Again, don't necessarily disagree, but you're still talking about balance issues instead of intrinsic flaws.

Sure, but I actually disagree-- not completely, since a bruiser team can often just brute force their way through a match if necessary, but enough. I'd be curious to hear your more in-depth thoughts on this.

I haven't actually had as many long games here as I'd expected.

Uh, yeah, you should. You're the one arguing with me and making claims, it's incumbent on you to back them up; it is not incumbent on me to rip through 300+ pages of "signed". This sort of thing makes you sound pretentious. I know what the major player complaints are-- but I'm talking to you and I'm asking what you think. If you think this is an unfair burden, stop arguing with/sassing strangers over the Internet who are trying to have a reasonable discussion with you.

You're more likely to piss me off by comparing me to a six year old for absolutely no reason whatsoever than by telling me what you think their agenda is. If I disagree, that's my prerogative as a human with opinions and perspective, but you really have no business being as condescending as you're being when you also flat-out refuse to do anything to prove your case. The more you hold back and decline to tell me "the truth", the less inclined I am to give you any sort of credibility; the more you hurl insults at me, the less likely I am to give this discussion any more of my time and energy.

I suppose you could see it that way. The point I'm trying to make is that SR is their flagship map; they'd gain nothing by changing it, but the other point is that SR is actually balanced and does/exists as all of the things Riot wants it to. Grant that I don't play SR that much so any player concerns with that map beyond cosmetic issues are beyond the scope of my awareness, but here's the thing: why would they ever screw with a map that's balanced? (And if it's not perfect, it still is and always has been in a better place than Treeline.) There's no reason for them to do so, not just from a monetary standpoint (bread and butter map) but from a design standpoint.

Treeline, on the other hand, is neither their bread and butter nor balanced. The thing that gets me is that the overhaul is a direct result of player outcry. There has been demand for attention to Treeline for a long, long time, and Riot responded to that-- finally!-- by remaking the map. Obviously that's been a less-than-perfect solution thus far, but

a) we're in Beta, and
b) it's not like they didn't tell us this was happening either
c) it's not like they don't want our feedback

So there's that.

It's not like I blame you for wanting choice, either. But...

If they really can't afford to keep both going, I don't think you can really hold that against Riot. And as much as I admire your efforts to show them that they've made a mistake, you will never convince them to bring the map back if their bottom line can't take it. Not trying to sound callous or dismissive, but you and I both know that that's just the way it is.

At the same time I think Riot would be in a weird place if they had two 3v3 maps with super-similar styles of gameplay and which support similar team comps and favor similar champions.Maybe that's just me.


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DoubleLane

Senior Member

11-08-2012

stop spamming these threads and just. signed.


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Sephïroth

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Senior Member

11-08-2012

Sign.

This map is nothing like the old tree line. There is no warding, only one jungle, and you have to control points like in dominion in order to win.

This map is TT + Dominion hybrid.

The old map needed 2 things:
1.) A consistent yet tough jungle
2.) A larger base area so you could not turtle.


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ReepaX

Junior Member

11-08-2012

Signed.

Riot; Bring back original TT, this is not TT. you claim to have fixed issues but just ended up making more. (Tank/Bruisers rule, snowballing, low level tower dives, unworthwhile world buff, ect)

You say that bringing the old map back will split the community, but IMO you have split the community by removing it. I know people that play less or dont play LoL now.

I for one will not be playing TT untill you bring back OS-TT, neither will i spend money till you do. I encourage others to do the same..


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Runix

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volibar View Post
As for the fate of old TT, right now we have no plans to add it back into custom games. we wanted to make sure that we don't split the focus of our players for each game type. For the same reason we probably won't ever create a 5v5 map that's really similar to Summoner's Rift, we didn't want to split the TT community between two maps. There's really no winner in that scenario, as there are two maps to support, two metas to maintain, and overall a really small delta between the two. We'd rather have you and our teams focused on one, working together to make it great as opposed to two, having neither of them living up to their full potential. If competitive TT is also going to take off, having two maps, even in custom games, is detrimental.
Thanks, and I completely agree. I originally was one of the "the more maps the better" players, but now, with a limited map pool, I can see the advantages of keeping the player base focused on a few maps and a few modes. I would love to see a solo queue for TT and ARAM, though.


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javiwey

Senior Member

11-08-2012

this new TT BS, claimed my all time TT partner, he cant nor will he play this map, thanks a bunch riot, also just in case a riot member is reading this, you didnt wanted to split the comunity, but heres some news, you did split it, now half the old TT players will most likely leave TT and pllay SR only.