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Riot, all this mess about incoming Sona nerfs is a proof of reverse power creep.

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Falkentyne

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Most of you dont realize that this nerf pattern, which has also been a chronic problem in MMORPGs, was even done by Capcom after E3, during the prelease of street fighter alpha 3.

The beta version was used at E3 so yes, you needed a guest or work pass to get in, which I had from working at xgaming (romset for this beta not available on emulators, btw), and a very strong (although not top tier) Evo tournament player named Jason Wilson went on 50+ game win streaks with X-ism (?) E Honda, and Balrog (not sure which ism). In this beta, E Honda's jab headbutt was *NOT* air blockable in initial frames, making it unbeatable anti-air (which would force you to play it like the legacy SF2/super Turbo). So Capcom lowers Honda's damage and removes the non air blockable aspect from it when he faces other isms (X ism chars can't air block anyway so that doesn't count), and the end result is Honda winds up in bottom tier, while Balrog is still viable.

Thankfully, in Super SF4:AE, capcom has made nerfs based on tournament play and tournament player feedback, instead of kneejerk reactions (E Honda is really strong after his SSF4->SSF4AE headbutt buffs, but loses to Dhalsim hard, while Chun Li vs Dhalsim is anyone's game).


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Ledinax

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Falkentyne:
Most of you dont realize that this nerf pattern, which has also been a chronic problem in MMORPGs, was even done by Capcom after E3, during the prelease of street fighter alpha 3.

The beta version was used at E3 so yes, you needed a guest or work pass to get in, which I had from working at xgaming (romset for this beta not available on emulators, btw), and a very strong (although not top tier) Evo tournament player named Jason Wilson went on 50+ game win streaks with X-ism (?) E Honda, and Balrog (not sure which ism). In this beta, E Honda's jab headbutt was *NOT* air blockable in initial frames, making it unbeatable anti-air (which would force you to play it like the legacy SF2/super Turbo). So Capcom lowers Honda's damage and removes the non air blockable aspect from it when he faces other isms (X ism chars can't air block anyway so that doesn't count), and the end result is Honda winds up in bottom tier, while Balrog is still viable.

Thankfully, in Super SF4:AE, capcom has made nerfs based on tournament play and tournament player feedback, instead of kneejerk reactions (E Honda is really strong after his SSF4->SSF4AE headbutt buffs, but loses to Dhalsim hard, while Chun Li vs Dhalsim is anyone's game).


Not hating or flaming you, but comparing a Fighting game to a Moba is quite... dumb :S


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Miirik

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Morello:
It's like we nerfed two of those (Graves and Corki are nerfed now) and Ez's getting swatted this patch.

I'm sorry, were you trying to call me out on something that we fixed? Thanks for letting people know it's not just support


You see, all 3 of those carries have something other carries don't. And that is poke/burst damage.

We said this was a bad idea (though after it happened) but you didn't listen!

Corki, Ezreal, Graves, they all have burst and escapes that can be used for both defense and offense. And look how they are constantly picked. Infact, I can say honestly 80% of my games currently, Ezreal is picked by someone.

Here is some things I think really need to be tweaked

Ezreal...
His blink needs a really high cooldown.
His ult needs a really high cooldown. I could swear he's clearing lanes whenever he wants every 45 seconds it feels like.

Corki...
Not sure what can be done with him.

Graves...
His passive makes him so hard to harass and burst, since it's usually at max stacks due to last hitting and such, pair him with a soraka and you are going to have a sad day.


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Traksor

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Genspirit:
but its ok to have only ez, graves, and corki used

makes sense


Ezreal + Graves + Corki = 25% of ALL AD ranged(12)

I don't think more than 25 % of top lanes are used, nor 25% of mid.


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Ledinax

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Traksor:
Ezreal + Graves + Corki = 25% of ALL AD ranged(12)

I don't think more than 25 % of top lanes are used, nor 25% of mid.


And that should change, I agree with him on that.

However, that's an almost unrelated matter here.


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Ledinax

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Supports shall not be forgotten! Bump!


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Ledinax

Senior Member

10-17-2012

And bumping again!


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Cartod

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Morello:
It's like we nerfed two of those (Graves and Corki are nerfed now) and Ez's getting swatted this patch.

I'm sorry, were you trying to call me out on something that we fixed? Thanks for letting people know it's not just support

It's like you tried to nerf all three of those AD carries at the same time, but you somehow messed that up.

I'm sorry, were you admitting that those Ezreal "nerfs" were a joke?

Btw, I saw some Irelia being played at the World Championship, you had better nerf Transcendent Blades again.


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Rejuvination

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Morello:
It's tough, because in cases like this we have to make a choice between making players mad or doing what makes the game better and more balanced. Making players mad isn't something we like to do, but sometimes it is something we have to do.

unless the number of players made angry is higher than the ones that have more fun with weaker supports... kudos to you if you can sit here and say that you would rather have a perfectly balanced game with 10000 players than a game that millions enjoy.


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Cartod

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Rejuvination:
unless the number of players made angry is higher than the ones that have more fun with weaker supports... kudos to you if you can sit here and say that you would rather have a perfectly balanced game with 10000 players than a game that millions enjoy.

Balance is the most important thing, that's why checkers is the most fun game ever created, right?