@Lyte: I am not currently banned, but could you review my past reform card(s)?

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Vampyro

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Senior Recruiter

10-15-2012

Hello,

I have been suspended multiple times by the tribunal and would like some feedback on how I can improve my behavior to reduce future punishments. I have only received my most recent reform card, and I do not feel that the behavior I exhibited in those games was to a degree deserving of a suspension.

Reform card: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/5712476/

Comments:
Game 1:
I requested, in /all chat, "REPORT KAT FOR MUFFCABAGE." as a facetious response to her requesting that the other team report me "for trolling." At the time, I was unaware that a "muffcabage" was an actual term, but I still do not believe that the word is a legitimate insult. If it is far more offensive than I believe it to be, that report was legitimate.

Game 2:
I used the "f" word as an adjective describing my level. It was distasteful, but I do not believe it should be classified as "offensive." There is a language filter for those who are uncomfortable with that sort of language.

Game 3:
I used the "f" word twice - again not directed at anyone. I also responded to a team member who stated "you know what is sad twitch you got free kills and you still lose to a panth taht is far behind. so sad" by stating "0/2 cait. that's sad." This was a legitimate insult, but again not to a degree that I feel would warrant a suspension. I should have muted the Caitlyn and moved on, but I don't feel that my actions here were excessive.

Game 4:
Again, two instances of the "f" word - not directed at anyone.

EDIT: When I made this post, I was specifically looking for a response from a Riot member who might have access to past tribunal cases, and with a strong understanding of what type of behavior is deserving of a suspension. A slight correction to a remark managed to blow out of proportion, and I would rather not spend my time discussing my behavior with other forum members who this post is not directed at. It is likely that this thread will die before I get a Riot response, but I will not be responding to other messages at this time.


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Anonymous THT

Member

10-15-2012

i dont see any reason for you to get banned, but welcome to league of legends


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JohnnyOmega

Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyro View Post
Hello,

I have been suspended multiple times by the tribunal and would like some feedback on how I can improve my behavior to reduce future punishments. I have only received my most recent reform card, and I do not feel that the behavior I exhibited in those games was to a degree deserving of a suspension.

Reform card: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/5712476/

Comments:
Game 1:
I requested, in /all chat, "REPORT KAT FOR MUFFCABAGE." as a facetious response to her requesting that the other team report me "for trolling." At the time, I was unaware that a "muffcabage" was an actual term, but I still do not believe that the word is a legitimate insult. If it is far more offensive than I believe it to be, that report was legitimate.

Game 2:
I used the "f" word as an adjective describing my level. It was distasteful, but I do not believe it should be classified as "offensive." There is a language filter for those who are uncomfortable with that sort of language.

Game 3:
I used the "f" word twice - again not directed at anyone. I also responded to a team member who stated "you know what is sad twitch you got free kills and you still lose to a panth taht is far behind. so sad" by stating "0/2 cait. that's sad." This was a legitimate insult, but again not to a degree that I feel would warrant a suspension. I should have muted the Caitlyn and moved on, but I don't feel that my actions here were excessive.

Game 4:
Again, two instances of the "f" word - not directed at anyone.


Game 2 - There was a bit of Negative Attitude here. When a teammate starts getting nasty towards you, you shouldn't make it worse by goading them. It's not whether it was an insult that makes you guilty here. It's how you used your words in a manner that increases the drop in morale when it's already low to begin with.

Katarina [All][00:17:41] :report him for trolling please
Katarina [All][00:17:50] :I know he's intentional, I udnno about ryze
Twitch [All][00:17:51] :REPORT KAT FOR MUFFCABAGE
Katarina [All][00:17:55] :but twitch is been sabotaging and ****
Katarina [All][00:18:02] :thanks loves <3
Twitch[00:18:09] :<3


Game 3 - A more obvious case of Negative Attitude. Making a team mate feel worse than he/she already feels for performing poorly and later throwing blame at that person is not the way to make your team do better nor is it the civil way to treat others. Joining that same team mate in mocking each other's build instead of offering actual constructive opinion is also not a way to build teamwork.

EDIT: Wrote game 4 instead of game 3. Sorry for the typo.

Twitch[00:08:28] :0/2 cait
Twitch[00:08:31] :that's sad


Caitlyn[00:17:29] :lol
Caitlyn[00:17:38] :nice build
Twitch[00:17:44] :you call that a build?
Twitch[00:17:46] :lol

Twitch[00:17:50] :I don't have enough money for a build
Caitlyn[00:17:58] :yeah
Twitch[00:18:00] :but your "build" is really good too

Twitch[00:18:53] :you gave up at 1/2


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Vampyro

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Senior Recruiter

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOmega View Post
Game 2 - There was a bit of Negative Attitude here. When a teammate starts getting nasty towards you, you shouldn't make it worse by goading them. It's not whether it was an insult that makes you guilty here. It's how you used your words in a manner that increases the drop in morale when it's already low to begin with.

Katarina [All][00:17:41] :report him for trolling please
Katarina [All][00:17:50] :I know he's intentional, I udnno about ryze
Twitch [All][00:17:51] :REPORT KAT FOR MUFFCABAGE
Katarina [All][00:17:55] :but twitch is been sabotaging and ****
Katarina [All][00:18:02] :thanks loves <3
Twitch[00:18:09] :<3


Game 4 - A more obvious case of Negative Attitude. Making a team mate feel worse than he/she already feels for performing poorly and later throwing blame at that person is not the way to make your team do better nor is it the civil way to treat others. Joining that same team mate in mocking each other's build instead of offering actual constructive opinion is also not a way to build teamwork.

Twitch[00:08:28] :0/2 cait
Twitch[00:08:31] :that's sad


Caitlyn[00:17:29] :lol
Caitlyn[00:17:38] :nice build
Twitch[00:17:44] :you call that a build?
Twitch[00:17:46] :lol


Twitch[00:18:53] :you gave up at 1/2
Just so you know, the "you call that a build?" quote is taken out of context. I was referring to my own build, and you can see that if you continue reading.


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DesertFox

Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyro View Post
Just so you know, the "you call that a build?" quote is taken out of context. I was referring to my own build, and you can see that if you continue reading.
I have to say, I've done far more toxic actions than that, yet still remains unsuspended for over a year. And by toxic, I mean spending 70% of my match time trying to piss my teammate who got on my bad side.


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JohnnyOmega

Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyro View Post
Just so you know, the "you call that a build?" quote is taken out of context. I was referring to my own build, and you can see that if you continue reading.

Twitch[00:17:50] :I don't have enough money for a build
Caitlyn[00:17:58] :yeah
Twitch[00:18:00] :but your "build" is really good too


Read later and you clearly refer to your ally's build. Using parentheses in this situation is an obvious mark of sarcasm. Sure this is light (pardonable even), but it's also not the biggest nor the only thing in that same incident (your 0/2 remark). The incident as a whole is not necessarily worth a suspension by itself, but certainly worth a warning. The suspension you received is from having prior warnings to behave better.

P.S. I would say that you wouldn't show up in Tribunal so much if you were more careful to be positively supportive and constructive in your communications.

P.P.S. The reported incidents on your reform card are not the only reports that led your case to form in Tribunal. They are a random sampling of the most recent within X days. You also have to get reported A LOT, like ridiculously a lot compared to most players to even reach suspension level.

YOU WANTED FEEDBACK ON YOUR BEHAVIOR ---> Just showing you the potential holes in your behavior. Based on your reform card, they're certainly not the biggest nor particularly huge but they are there. You want to deny it, that's fine. I'm just pointing them out because you asked for feedback.


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Vampyro

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Senior Recruiter

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOmega View Post
Twitch[00:17:50] :I don't have enough money for a build
Caitlyn[00:17:58] :yeah
Twitch[00:18:00] :but your "build" is really good too


Read later and you clearly refer to your ally's build. Using parentheses in this situation is an obvious mark of sarcasm. Sure this is light, but it's also not the biggest nor the only thing in that same incident (your 0/2 remark). Not necessarily worth a suspension by itself, but certainly worth a warning. The suspension you received is from having prior warnings to behave better.

P.S. I would say that you wouldn't show up in Tribunal so much if you were more careful to be positively supportive and constructive in your communications.
I was only correcting information that was taken out of context. I did not mean to insinuate that my brief comments encompassed every issue that might be present in the cases.

I don't think it's reasonable to say that the suspension I received is "from having prior warnings to behave better," though, because my previous actions (if they were in fact deserving of a ban) should not be grouped with my actions after that fact. The Tribunal is supposed to be a reform system to encourage players to interact with the community in a more positive way, and I don't think that punishing a player for having been punished would be part of that system.

Also, though these matches do not reflect it well, I do tend to be positive and constructive in communications. Assuming the Tribunal works in a logical way, these are the worst games out of hundreds I played. They do not necessarily reflect my typical behavior.


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Vampyro

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Senior Recruiter

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOmega View Post
Twitch[00:17:50] :I don't have enough money for a build
Caitlyn[00:17:58] :yeah
Twitch[00:18:00] :but your "build" is really good too


Read later and you clearly refer to your ally's build. Using parentheses in this situation is an obvious mark of sarcasm. Sure this is light (pardonable even), but it's also not the biggest nor the only thing in that same incident (your 0/2 remark). The incident as a whole is not necessarily worth a suspension by itself, but certainly worth a warning. The suspension you received is from having prior warnings to behave better.

P.S. I would say that you wouldn't show up in Tribunal so much if you were more careful to be positively supportive and constructive in your communications.

P.P.S. The reported incidents on your reform card are not the only reports that led your case to form in Tribunal. They are a random sampling of the most recent within X days. You also have to get reported A LOT, like ridiculously a lot compared to most players to even reach suspension level.

YOU WANTED FEEDBACK ON YOUR BEHAVIOR ---> Just showing you the potential holes in your behavior. Based on your reform card, they're certainly not the biggest nor particularly huge but they are there. You want to deny it, that's fine. I'm just pointing them out because you asked for feedback.
In response to your two additions to your post:

I recognize that I have to be reported a lot to end up in the Tribunal. That fact should not dictate the outcome of a case. If a member of the tribunal is entering my case with a preconceived notion that I am guilty, I am not being given a fair review.

And I do want feedback. I was hoping for Lyte or another Riot member, but I do appreciate your input. I'm not attempting to deny anything (except, ironically, that I'm in denial).


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JohnnyOmega

Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyro View Post
I was only correcting information that was taken out of context. I did not mean to insinuate that my brief comments encompassed every issue that might be present in the cases.

I don't think it's reasonable to say that the suspension I received is "from having prior warnings to behave better," though, because my previous actions (if they were in fact deserving of a ban) should not be grouped with my actions after that fact. The Tribunal is supposed to be a reform system to encourage players to interact with the community in a more positive way, and I don't think that punishing a player for having been punished would be part of that system.

Also, though these matches do not reflect it well, I do tend to be positive and constructive in communications. Assuming the Tribunal works in a logical way, these are the worst games out of hundreds I played. They do not necessarily reflect my typical behavior.
The information was not taken out of context though. I was absolutely correct in saying that you mocked your ally back. I however had a copy-paste snafu and the part of the text I was referring to got omitted so I apologize for that. It was part of the same exchange however so it was in the same issue that I'm referring to in the incident.

The player doesn't get suspended "for being punished". The player gets suspended for "not listening" or "not trying hard enough to listen". The reform cards are now available so that the community can help players to understand what they can do to avoid future punishment BUT they have to be WILLING to accept advice.

WHY should you accept my advice?

1. I have never been punished whatsoever in the game.

2. I'm the guy constructing "The Guide To Tribunal" so I am qualified to help nitpick the possible ways that a player can get legitimately suspended over even if they don't want to believe they exist.


Also, even if reported incidents don't match your typical behavior, they can show whether your behavior drifts away from your typical behavior more frequently than it should.

Nobody is perfect, but the community is here to help.


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Vampyro

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Senior Recruiter

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOmega View Post
The information was not taken out of context though. I was absolutely correct in saying that you mocked your ally back. I however had a copy-paste snafu and the part of the text I was referring to got omitted so I apologize for that. It was part of the same exchange however so it was in the same issue that I'm referring to in the incident.

The player doesn't get suspended "for being punished". The player gets suspended for "not listening" or "not trying hard enough to listen". The reform cards are now available so that the community can help players to understand what they can do to avoid future punishment BUT they have to be WILLING to accept advice.

WHY should you accept my advice?

1. I have never been punished whatsoever in the game.

2. I'm the guy constructing "The Guide To Tribunal" so I am qualified to help nitpick the possible ways that a player can get legitimately suspended over even if they don't want to believe they exist.


Also, even if reported incidents don't match your typical behavior, they can show whether your behavior drifts away from your typical behavior more frequently than it should.

Nobody is perfect, but the community is here to help.
The incriminating remark was not in your initial post so, by definition, the quote was taken out of context. Now that you've amended your post to include the missing information, the context is present and your remark is in context. The validity of your remark has nothing to do with whether or not it was in context - and it was a valid remark which I did not deny.

Again, I appreciate that you're trying to help and I do not believe, to this point, I have indicated otherwise. Now, however, I would rather you stop attempting to help, as it seems you are using the fact that I was in the tribunal as evidence that I deserve to be issued a punishment. You are also speaking in a condescending manner, and give the impression that you see yourself as a superior in this exchange - both of which make me disinclined to take your advice to heart.


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