Syndra Quality of Life/Useability changes

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DmG Apollo

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Thank you for the update Meddler! I'm sure I wasn't the only one wondering if this is how she was intended to stay.

I do have ONE request though. Can you please edit the particles on her orbs when using the Justicar skin? I find myself losing track of my orbs in the middle of fights sometimes due to them being not very visible. I know other people have been having this problem too. The Justicar skin is so sweet....but if I was ever playing her, id have to use her default skin just so I can keep track. By all means, keep them gold and glowy...but maybe you could make them more "solid" looking, similar to the default's orbs.


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NA1

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Hey folks,

Just wanted to let you know about some useability/quality of life changes we're currently testing for Syndra and also gather some feedback to see if there's anything else we might have missed that would it would be appropriate to bundle with them. We didn't get Syndra's state quite right on launch, both in terms of simple power and in terms of spell timings, which in retrospect left her abilities both harder to use/more delayed than was appropriate and light on the actual pay off when executed correctly. In the last balance patch we buffed the damage, range and/or mana cost on her skills so now we're looking at tweaking the performance on her abilities themselves (this sort of stuff takes longer to do, hence the changes being split into two patches).

The key changes we're currently testing are:

1. Making her Force of Will more responsive by increasing the speed at which Syndra pulls Dark Spheres/Minions to her to throw and by removing the spell slot cooldown imposed during the grab (instead replacing it with a check that allows the throw to occur as soon as the Sphere/Minion's been pulled to her though not before).

2. Improving the timing on the Sphere hit detection from Scatter the Weak to allow more natural Q followed immediately by E plays. This can currently be done but can be a bit unreliable at moderate Q ranges from Syndra where intuitively you'd expect the combo to work.

3. Fixing the cooldown check on the ultimate so that it doesn't go on cooldown without casting, whether because the target died mid animation or because spellshields are being checked for at start of cast, not at point of missile impact.

4. We're testing a small range increase on her ultimate. This is something we're really cautious about, given the ult's damage can be very high
and higher ranges tested during development were extremely powerful. Given other aspects of her kit were somewhat different then however there's value in rechecking a longer range again to see if the previous problems observed still hold true or not.

In addition we've also got a number of bug fixes in the works that should also improve Syndra's play experience, in particular a case where enemies hit by both Scatter the Weak and a knocked back Dark Sphere sometimes only getting knocked back, rather than knocked back and stunned as intended.

As usual since these are changes in testing they're not set in stone and release timing's not confirmed yet, though we should be talking sooner rather than later.

Wow, still haven't admitted that her DESIGN is flawed? Ugh. Beating a dead horse here.

For a kit designed around moving orbs, the position of the orbs does NOTHING.

Give her orbs some kind of effect on the field. Vision is a start. Maybe a very tiny AoE dps pulsing damage. Maybe a minor debuff for being near an orb. Something. ANYTHING to make her kit synergize.


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Discpled

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by indioBR View Post
Syndra is not as rewarding as she should be. usually if u q>e to stun you are missing the Q dmg.

the big flaw is, after syndra used her ultimate, there is like 7 balls over the battle field...and what can u do? E? that is it? a lot of balls around and they wont explode or do nothing cool?
This, exactly. Dead on. If you Q+E for the stun then you miss out on a huge portion of her damage. Also true that having 6/7 spheres on the ground can be a good full team stun but due to her short ult and short E she is crazy vulnerable and the damage outside of Q or R is rather poor. Maybe Q could also interact with spheres already on the ground too or something. Maybe a dm over time effect when enemies walk through the spheres...


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Xenotime Gaze

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feladorzor View Post
Hello Meddler. Thank you for acknowledging that Syndra is indeed quite unreliable as a champion right now, its promising to know that she's not being left as is for the next year on the hopes someone 'discovers' her.

A few days after Syndras release I made a thread with my analysis of her. It got 150+ upvotes showing that many people were having issues with her basic design. I will just say that I was against her damage buffs as I knew she required more than just buffs/nerfs to her numbers, she almost needed a redesign to fix the awkwardness of her kit.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2574259 - Link to said thread.

If you would please take a few minutes to read it, it will save me the trouble of typing everything in here. In any case, I came up with a solution to fixing Syndra which will make her feel like a combo champ, creating synergy in her kit and make her viable in team fights all while remaining true to her initial design intentions. Keep in mind that this fix would be for Syndra in her current state without any QoL or Usability changes, bar maybe some damage reduction due to the impact it would have;

Active 'Dark Spheres' which are activated by any of Syndra's abilities will now add bonus magic damage (equivalent to Dark Spehere).

I believe that this simple change will completely solidify the way that Syndra is meant to be played while making her kit flow with synergy. Syndra can now set up her Spheres without sacrificing the majority of her damage output because those active orbs will now deal the same damage as Q on top of whatever spell she uses on it.

Force of Will: When leashing a Dark Sphere deals 80/120/160/200/240 (+0.7) + 60/100/140/180/220 (+0.5) in additional magic damage. Does not add bonus magic damage when throwing minions or monsters.

Scatter the Weak: Each Dark Sphere activated by Scatter the Weak deals 70/115/160/205/250 (+0.4) + 60/100/140/180/220 (+0.5) in additional magic damage.

Unleashed Power: Does not get additional bonus damage from active orbs.

Despite the ultimate not getting the damage bonus this allows for one very important thing to happen. Syndra can now use her single target ultimate on a bruiser/tank in the middle of a team fight and follow that up with Scatter the Weak, dealing lots of AoE damage and distorting the enemy team.

Again, this type of change would require a review of her damage output, but this is just what she needs to become a viable mage with a fluid kit. Right now she just isn't a combo champ, she is a champion with 4 seperate skills that do their own thing and the only thing that makes them remotely similar is the underwhelming interaction between the Dark Spheres. The suggested change could even be a new passive for her.

Thank you for reading good sir, I hope whatever changes you do make to Syndra they will be good. Anivia is a shining example of a champion that has a fluid kit and I hope that can be replicated with Syndra.
This is Is exactly what I assumed she could do innately, and I expected this change to her as opposed to the other buffs.


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Discpled

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herald of Time View Post
This is Is exactly what I assumed she could do innately, and I expected this change to her as opposed to the other buffs.
If she could create spheres with her other spells would totall justify her Ult. It is lacking because you have to setup all the spheres. If W created a sphere the you could Q+W+Q+R within an acceptable amount of time imo. This would justify using R late game outside the E stun plus whenever you need to W and you are not near a minion or sphere it would reduce mana cost and give her some needed utility, say, in River or Jungle and increase dps I think.


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

10-12-2012

her force of will, definitvly need to be smartcasted when you grab the minion/sphere. I mean come on. E+click+E+click just to deal damage is way to loong. should be E+E+click only.


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Mokkun

Senior Member

10-12-2012

A lot of those changes sound pretty good, but I'm not sure if anything needs to be done to buff her ult. That's been the one thing that has seemed in pretty good shape to me since she came out. The single target nuke capacity of that thing is terrifying, and it gives her all the toys she needs during team fights.

It's the use of those toys that feels a little kludgy, mostly the grabbing/throwing mechanism, and you seem to be on that.

I hadn't personally noticed Scatter the Weak ever failing to notice a ball that was just cast, though maybe I haven't been keeping the combo quite close enough together.


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Murcièlago

Senior Member

10-12-2012

YES, ive been maining syndra since she came out, loved everything about her but those 4 things that you are talking about were the ONLY problems i had with her. Fix those things and she is in a perfect state. Thank you!!


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Ezran

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Senior Member

10-12-2012

Just played her the other night in ranked, I was tired and sucked at landing my skills optimally and died a few times because of it but otherwise you guys have it right. Her damage seems fine now, any higher and you'll be able to just spam Q and do a million damage, but sometimes she doesn't work like I'd want her to (I die midway through ult cast, goes on cd but does no damage, scatter not actually stunning etc)

I also think, along with many above me it seems, that her synergy between orbs and her other abilities is kind of weird? Like when you ult and have 7 orbs on the ground but can't do anything with them...or when you put a Q down and then picking it up with W doesn't grant an additional benefit vs. picking up a minion. I personally liked the idea of 'activated orbs gain a AoE DoT' effect, so that in theory if you could manage your abilities and positioning effectively you could keep orbs up dealing like 40 dps or whatever for much longer than their initial duration. This would make it feel important to use orbs over minions, or Q then E instead of just using E for knock backs etc. And it would put those damn post-ult orbs to good use, making a kind of field of damage. Ulting would be more strategic, as ulting mid fight would do more AoE to a bunched up team, or you could just ult 1 person after getting orbs out for massive single target damage.


+1 Riot, she's such a cool champion


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DmG Apollo

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Bump, does nobody agree about Justicar's orbs? :/