Syndra Quality of Life/Useability changes

First Riot Post
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Augustine

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post

This is the same reason that Dark Spheres don't have an AOE damage aura, -MR aura or anything similar while present on the ground. We tested those sorts of effects and the benefit was extremely hard to notice/feel, while the base damage of Dark Sphere itself had to be a lot lower to compensate for that invisible power.
As a whole I really like these changes being thought up, and fully support Riot in listening to Syndra players, but I do have a question based on this quote above.

Do you believe there is anyway to give Dark Spheres a noticeable reward for bringing them out without taking away a lot of it's power?
I believe adding something to them as a passive (so she actually has something pre lvl-9) would really help.

Some ideas I've heard and considered are a small buff to only Syndra's Armor/MR, mana regen, or movespeed based on the number of spheres out. Another good idea I've seen was adding vision around her dark spheres sort of like Karthus Q (where it gives vision for the cast, but not for the duration of the dark sphere since 6 seconds of vision sounds too strong).


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Telvarin

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Since she has virtually no utility outside of a small stun/knock back, could her spheres give vision? Maybe not for the lifetime of the sphere, but at least when cast? It would be nice to have something to bush check with as a champion who has no escape other than flash.

EDIT:
Note to self, read thread before posting.


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NOTelshortbus

Member

10-12-2012

Great............already refunded her. At least you guys admit she sucked though, I feel a little better about having wasted the refund.


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KevinDelMarr

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Please don't reduce mana costs further. If players want to spam their abilities constantly, go for an early Chalice. Anivia and Orianna do fine with an early chalice, Syndra should be no different


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MoeBeam

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Senior Member

10-12-2012

Her ult should hit all at once, like the time it takes for all her orbs to hit right now should be changed to a short delay where she gathers all the orbs, and then her ult dealing all its damage at once after she gathers them. It's just really annoying to see their health slowly go down from each individual orb rather than a big burst and doesn't really give it the oomph, and also I have no idea whether or not I should cast ignite on them since it can take a good bit of time for all the orbs to hit them, and then they get away with like 20 HP and are out of ignite range by the time my ult is done casting.


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p12om3th3us

Junior Member

10-12-2012

Greetings Meddler! This post has definately brighten my day, I bought syndra when she came out and hated my decision. Once i got the hang of her kit shes fun to play, but obviously is really underwhelming at the moment. Here's my personal take on her:

Shes a very strong laner and excellent farmer. Outside her utility and range, she has no present outside the laning phase or in teamfights. Even in lane she has mana issues due to her kit relying mainly on her q which i know that her point but runs out mana quickly due to that reason. Additionally her passive is not really a passive, simply because if doesnt take effect until level 9. Any other mage has an edge over her simply because of the lack it most the game.

Edit Also i feel the spheres just last too short.

My suggestions is to keep her kit as is but rework in the passive in to something more viable. Perhaps take a percentage of the bonus (e extended range, slow) her passive she gains later and give it to her base and add more ulility/cc skills at each stage (orbs gain sight lvl 2, ult stuns lvl 3, etc). No means what i want exactly but more something of ideas to make her more viable and in line. And for each level Q,W,E,R small upgrade happens (besides dam and CD) to give her that more trancedent feel.

Thanks again for listening to the community!


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Bad Morde Bot

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Hi Meddler,

I am happy to hear about the Syndra changes, but do you mind me sidetracking you a little bit here?

Syndra's Q work very similarly to Karthus's Q and Cassiopeia's Q, but for some reason Karthus and Cass do not have the target indicator (it is always smartcasted without range indicator), while Syndra does... which is very awkward for me. Is there any plan to make things consistent (e.g. make Karthus's and Cassiopeia's Qs work like Syndra's Q)? Why is it that people are forced to smartcast Karthus's and Cassiopeia's Qs?


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Sanriu

Member

10-12-2012

"3. Fixing the cooldown check on the ultimate so that it doesn't go on cooldown without casting, whether because the target died mid animation or because spellshields are being checked for at start of cast, not at point of missile impact."

As you said, some other champions havie this problem to, example Twisted Fate ultimate, please fix it.


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Lunaria

Senior Member

10-12-2012

It really sounds like you guys are just all over the place with syndra like really all over the place

you have her move speed on the sluggish side but say it's because she can move while casting 2 of her spells but the two spells she can cast while moving are a ground targeted skill with a really long windup that is easy as sin to dodge and a spell that requires ammo that your either putting behind you in a position you cant pick up or a minion(why are you kiting into the enemy base again?) which also has a really long windup and is also extremely easy to dodge
Most people can close on her poor speed while dodging spheres no problem and then shes forced to scatter and then they gap close and she's done

You say you want her to be mana restricted but rewarded for building mana but people don't even build anivia for mana very much outside of a chalice which is pretty darn good on any caster nowadays. Or maybe an RoA but usually not both
She doesn't scale with mana anywhere and it doesn't really help her damage output any outside of her running out of mana at a much faster rate than other casters that can do more with less.
It just doesn't make sense

You have all these odd restrictions on her and awkward windups and sluggish abilities while also having high costs and high cooldowns while she doesn't even really do all that much damage to compensate and her ranges aren't all that great either

Usually not one for comparing kits but look at her Q and W compared to cassie's Q and W. They could not be more alike in function but cassie's versions are better in every single imaginable way.
On top of that cassie also has a cone CC skill that is also WAY better than syndra's cone cc skill and cassie's big single target damage skill very likely does more damage in a similar time period and is easier to use and faster and more reliable

She just doesn't make sense, Her main skill is of the style that needs to be spammy to be functional. tiny delayed aoe's are by nature going to miss a lot more than they hit if people are paying attention but it's designed more like a big nuke you have to use sparingly only when your sure of a hit and doesn't even do that much damage
Her slow takes so long to launch that if your chasing someone they'll be gone before it gets there for sure and if your trying to get away its just way too slow to facilitate

the knock back is a decent spell but the cooldown is quite long and it's pretty darn hard to hit. Even spells like annie's incinerate is a far more reliable aoe stun(which is also pretty much just as good as a knockback in most cases that a knockback would be useful)

her ult is cool and all but it's range doesn't mesh with her other skills at all and takes so much work to do slightly more single target damage than way better aoe ults that have awesome secondary effects
really the only thing you can really do with it now is blow it on initiator and scatter it hoping for a couple stuns but now you lost your disengage and big nuke

and her passive is just bleck...
It brings her skills up to where they should have been the whole time. Those secondary effects need to just be rolled into her skills as is and take a page from kha'zix book and give her actual new effects at max, including her ult

Just have to pick a direction and go with it
make her like a mortar able to attack at exceptional range but slow and easy to avoid(they look like cannonballs anyways)
make her like an awkward to use but highly rewarding mid range mage(she's already awkward just needs the reward for it)
make her more like cassiopeia with a spammable Q and quicker to connect W while the E and R ad passive define her(people love cassie and karth's style, no harm putting in a new contender)
Make her like a pet mage where the spheres act like little gravity wells(it's a little strange they're harmless atm)
but right now she pretty much just has all the negative sides and none of the specialties It's like she's difficult just for the sake of being difficult

edit: just something else I think worth noting. Karma's skills do more damage, are easier to land, and she brings a ton more utility to a fight than syndra. Karma is considered unviable because she doesn't bring enough damage and utility to a fight while being too complicated to play


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Apollinarius

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinDelMarr View Post
Please don't reduce mana costs further. If players want to spam their abilities constantly, go for an early Chalice. Anivia and Orianna do fine with an early chalice, Syndra should be no different
At rank 5, Syndra's orbs cost 80 mana. At rank 5, Orianna's Q costs 50 mana.

Syndra needs orbs for everything. Literally. If you have no orbs on the ground, you are powerless. Syndra is like Orianna if Orianna had to cast Q to have her ball available for 6 seconds and then it disappeared again.

Syndra is designed so that you need to keep always summoning orbs, even when there are no enemies around. This becomes ridiculous and expensive because the orbs are high mana cost and the cast time is too long for such a necessary skill. A chalice is not enough. I always rush Athene's on Syndra and she still blows through mana. I could go tear after chalice, but at that point you're itemizing for mana only and have no AP or utility.

Limiting Syndra through mana is really bad method. You could limit Jayce with mana (make that Q actually cost something when he spams it) but Syndra is a short range, low mobility, moderate utility caster. If you make her spells have low damage/mana ratios, then she is simply inferior to other casters who have the same range as her or longer, but have lower mana costs.