How do you know when your winning your lane?

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GreenThunda

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by summoz View Post
As an ADC.

I'm 1450 ELO and quite often play Ez. I get matched up against graves ALOT.

My farming is getting better, i usually have around 150 @ the 20 minute mark.

I hear the Ez is support to beat graves? How is it that i'll be around 30 farm above him, i'll have 1 kill under my belt because i usually beat down the support if he tries to zone me and graves comes back and stomps me in a dual?

I rush cleaver/2 dorans with VS. I try to play the lane like a boxer, left/right last hitting, poking at graves in between last hits but all it takes for him is to E forward and buckshot, i'll E back and try to kite but his damage is huge.

I dunno, Ez just seems really weak at the moment.
I got to gold playing Graves, and I promise you (keep in mind supports make a difference) EZ win the lane. I'll tell you from my perspective as a Grave player what EZ can do to win.

1) poke, but make it count, don't wast mana hitting creeps, you have to make sure you hit me. Your poke is faster and I'm wasting mana if I'm buckshoting you at max range

2) Don't just blink at me, wait for your support to get a good initiate, this matchup is about patience, if you come at me first I'm gonna Q your face then dash away.

3) Reaction times are everying, if I dash forward you can blink out of buckshot range (blink SIDEWAYS) then hit me with your combo. My burst is down and you win in AA because of your flux

4) Max Flux

5) Don't let me get taric too, Taric graves is a stupid easy lane to play as, hard to play against, and their is tons of synergy between the two.

6) Change your build a bit. Double dorans is excessive, you want a phage pretty quick. Go 1 dorans at most or a vamp, then get Phage. The bonus hp hurts my burst, the slow makes it so I can't get away if I dashed already


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GreenThunda

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by summoz View Post
I play with 230 ping. This may be 1 of the issues.

Don't rush BC? Why?
Bc by the time you have that Graves has two dorans and a BF and is headed to an IE. IE > BC

You want to head for Trinity or IE first, never BC.

BC is a very gold effecient item but bad as soon as any enemy gets FH or Omen, you only get BC if you're losing and need some damage fast for teamfights


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vVv Anaxamander

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egotistica View Post
You're winning if you can push your wave to the enemy tower while maintaining a higher CS than the enemy ADC, have the tower chew up your creep wave, and then having the 2 fresh waves meet in the middle of the lane again.

That feel.

And then when you're comfortably ahead in CS you can freeze lane right outside of your tower range.
This is a good strat, but it's not like its hard to cs under a tower. It won't get you very far against good opponents that know how to cs.


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KaRaaaaaa

Member

10-11-2012

First: never get BC on adc. Ever.
Even if the enemy bruiser and jungler has minimal armor items, base armor increases by level, so chances are they are going to be above 100-110 armor (this is the point where LW's armor penetration becomes greater than BC's armor reduction). Add to the fact that BC needs 3 stacks for it to be effective vs LW, it isn't worth it to get BC at all.

In lane, if he E's forward and does buckshot, u should already be channeling ur E to shift back. If u still get hit by buckshot, then ur reaction time is probably too slow.

And Ez should dominate almost all duels. It is CRITICAL that u land ur W skill on the AD that u are dueling, as ur W skill decreases their attack speed drastically and makes it impossible for them to deal any dps on you. If u dont land ur W, then it's best that u retreat. Another thing is, u want to predict when he will use his buckshot and ultimate and try to shift away from his skillshots. For example, I mainly play vayne, and dodging grave's buckshot and ultimate is easy with my tumble.


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GreenThunda

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaRaaaaaa View Post
First: never get BC on adc. Ever.
Even if the enemy bruiser and jungler has minimal armor items, base armor increases by level, so chances are they are going to be above 100-110 armor (this is the point where LW's armor penetration becomes greater than BC's armor reduction). Add to the fact that BC needs 3 stacks for it to be effective vs LW, it isn't worth it to get BC at all.
.

This is an unfair comparision. You can't just factor in only the armor BC gives vs LW.

Bc BC also gives more AD (by quite a bit actually) and more AS, and those stats multiply very well with other stats, you're trading an N^2 scaler for an N^3 scaler.
(simplified model is AS*AD*ArPen vs AD*ArPen)

I've done math on this before and assuming no AS slows on enemy champs BC at full stacks does more dmg on an end game build even as enemies are hitting a 160armor mark.

"but you need to stack it" yeah and as a trade off your entire team benfits from it. Having 2-3 AD dmg champs isn't uncommon now, Jayce, Rengar etc all ebenfit from it. And in any instance where you need them to peel for you they'll do more dmg to the target being peeled.

The only reason BC is NEVER worth getting is because FH and randuins are built EVERY game (well, idk, maybe not at 500 elo)


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Zoram

Senior Member

10-11-2012

get a blood thirster not a black claver first. Some people like to mix in a sheen somewhere in there too because of how ezreal's Q can use the sheen's passive for strong poke.


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kthnxbai

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Recruiter

10-11-2012

i'm fairly certain ez wins the match up because he has longer range than graves... maybe you're focusing on the support too much. remember that in bot lane, it's usually a bad idea to go all in (blow cd's) on the support unless they're really out of position.

if graves just herp derp E-->Q's you. just W him in the face and you can win the dual


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summoz

Senior Member

10-11-2012

So glad to see the good amount of comments on this topic as i'm a new ADC player and still learning the match ups. This is just something that i have experienced alot of.

So, no more BC.. i'll remember that. I'll more than likely go straight for a BT, into a IE, into a Tri force?

I'll remember to max W first aswell. This spell always seemed over-rated and useless to me but i can fully understand how important it is now when dueling.

As for poking. Im trying to get into the habit of cs'ing, poking, cs'ing, poking etc. So i try to poke who ever is closest or out of position. Obviously won't poke if i need to cs but if there is nothing to cs, i love to harass.

How soon should i get beserker boots?


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Warkeiser

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Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by summoz View Post
I play with 230 ping. This may be 1 of the issues.

Don't rush BC? Why?
It's a general rule of thumb that most AD carries won't make as much use out of BC + another item as they would PD + another item. Black Cleaver is a good pick if the enemy is not stacking armor, but if the average enemy has 113+ armor, then Last Whisper will always be a better choice for armor penetration as it gives more than BC and will give the penetration on every attack, regardless of however many times the target has been hit beforehand. Meanwhile, in terms of raw damage output Phantom Dancer is still better because it massively increases your chance to deal 200-250% bonus damage as well as increases your attack speed by a greater amount.

As for Ezreal, you can substitute Phantom Dancer with Trinity Force and get the same result, except now Ezreal gets every stat he needs in addition to a slow and extra damage on his long-range poke.

The only AD carry you can really get away with building BC on is Vayne because it synergizes so well with her Silver Bolts.


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Tylerpmo

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Instead of poking him in lane with Q you should farm with it to avoid as much damage as possible.

I would rush a TF on ez, I don't think a BC first is the way to go.

Buy a ton of health pots on ever back if you need too to stay in lane when he pokes you.

You can always poke him when he goes for last hits but that is all I got


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