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AZF vs TSM: Lessons learned.

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Zhugan

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Dakz:
They have a chance, but as previously explained, It not only denied a possible first blood, it completely undid TSM's game plan.

This is of coarse ignoring the fact that it cost TSM's jungler a lot of his red side jungle, and gave Miss fortune a lvl 1 red to enjoy an easy bottom lane with.


Here is the thing, your entire point is based on "they cheated and benefit was gained" but who is to say what benefit was gained in any of the other instances of cheating, including with TSM?

No one is asking for a remake in those other cases, yourself included. Honestly, that doesn't make any sense at all. You can't say that cheating and the impacts of said cheating, whether ruled minor or noteworthy or otherwise, are worse in one case than the other, or more worthy of a replay in one case than another.

Simply put, you are asking for highly inconsistent treatment of this whole affair, which would be far, FAR worse than what Riot has done. What's more, when compared to literally any other sport (esport or otherwise) this is the EXACT sort of action that most sport organizations would take. Having teams replay a match/disqualifying teams rarely happens, and when it does it is because of clear, egregious, and often repeated instances of cheating. That simply didn't happen.

Just because the fans don't like how it was handled doesn't mean that it was handled inappropriately. In fact, the truth is often such that fans will be displeased with the choices in cases like this because there is no good choice. If they DQ'd Azubu, there would be a lot of people in uproar about how awful that was. If they were forced to replay the games, that might satisfy fans, but given the logic that was employed to justify that, Riot would have to replay nearly half a dozen games, and that is assuming that they have the same results. Which would cost Riot a lot of money, and a lot of time that they don't really have.


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Zilveren

Senior Member

10-12-2012

A lot of people bring up the TSM Dyrus and Chaox peaks. However I will remind you this was after the game was announced to be remade, aka it was fair and not cheating of any sort.

I'm not asking for "punish one not both cheaters!!!!", I am asking for Punish a cheater, and ignore the 100% irrelevant in-between game look that literally was nothing.

A man shot his gun and hit someone on purpose.
vs
A man shot his gun in the wilderness and hit a bottle on purpose.


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Alaric11

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Dakz:
A lot of people bring up the TSM Dyrus and Chaox peaks. However I will remind you this was after the game was announced to be remade, aka it was fair and not cheating of any sort.

I'm not asking for "punish one not both cheaters!!!!", I am asking for Punish a cheater, and ignore the 100% irrelevant in-between game look that literally was nothing.

A man shot his gun and hit someone on purpose.
vs
A man shot his gun in the wilderness and hit a bottle on purpose.

Let's not forget that dyrus immediately called over a ref for the express purpose of asking for an avenue of cheating to be removed.

Meanwhile, af stay silent and use it to win match.

Scumbag TSM.


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Zhugan

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Dakz:
A lot of people bring up the TSM Dyrus and Chaox peaks. However I will remind you this was after the game was announced to be remade, aka it was fair and not cheating of any sort.

I'm not asking for "punish one not both cheaters!!!!", I am asking for Punish a cheater, and ignore the 100% irrelevant in-between game look that literally was nothing.

A man shot his gun and hit someone on purpose.
vs
A man shot his gun in the wilderness and hit a bottle on purpose.


Here is the thing, following your previous logic, shooting the gun is the issue, not the impact of shooting the gun. So because lots of teams did that (not just AzF or TSM, but also iG and WE) that would mean remakes for all of those teams. Yet, no one is asking for that.

And, if the look at a team's early game strategy that results in very little happening (which is what Dyrus did) has no impact, then how did Woong looking at TSM's early game strategy have such a significant impact? o.O


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Awes0meCherry

Junior Member

10-12-2012

Someone explained earlier the impact of the cheat. Dyrus causing exactly 0 harm vs Woong undoing TSM's gameplan with a screen cheat mixed with the loss of oddone's jungle and a free red for the enemy adc.


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Zhugan

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Awes0meCherry:
Someone explained earlier the impact of the cheat. Dyrus causing exactly 0 harm vs Woong undoing TSM's gameplan with a screen cheat mixed with the loss of oddone's jungle and a free red for the enemy adc.


http://i.imgur.com/3LEyX.jpg

Clearly Dyrus couldn't have seen anything of value to take forward in gameplay. My bad...

OH WAIT, he could have. If seeing where TSM was for a brief moment ruined their entire game, why didn't the same happen to AzF?


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trustmeimdoctor

Senior Member

10-12-2012

How about people blame Riot for not doing anything to block the players view of the screen. What kind of ****** thinks that simply telling the players not to look over there is good enough?


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Zilveren

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Zhugan:
http://i.imgur.com/3LEyX.jpg (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3LEyX.jpg)

Clearly Dyrus couldn't have seen anything of value to take forward in gameplay. My bad...

OH WAIT, he could have. If seeing where TSM was for a brief moment ruined there entire game, why didn't the same happen to AzF?



Please reread the original post. Dyrus looked in-between games after the game they had been in was publicly announced to be thrown out the door, for remake. Thank you.


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Tuckerr

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Tekshi:
They refunded all the tickets for the screw up on saturday and are hosting an extra day which'll cost thousands of dollars in profit loss.


For riot, losing thousands of dollars is akin to you losing like $15. Oh, no! We'll have to skip lunch today!

On the other hand, they stand to at least break even streaming a rematch. I think AF deserved to win the second game, and it's very likely that they might have won that first game anyway, even if they hadn't seen the screen. I'd still watch the hell out of a rematch, and it would make everyone feel better.


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Zilveren

Senior Member

10-12-2012

You're spot on Tucker.

However the new possible evidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0DxvZ7j_h6w#t=1830s (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Ffeature%3Dplayer_detailpage%26amp%3Bamp%3Bv%3D0DxvZ7j_h6w%23t%3D1830s)
suggests that they also cheated vs SK gaming.
This is one giant mess that has little way of successfully being corrected without some people being left out in the cold. (Still, less people than now.)