@Classick Let's talk about Tristana...please?

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Kamai

Senior Member

10-10-2012

The explosive shot rework looks interesting. I'm just curious if there's a balanced way to get the grievous wounds effect back in it. Also, might this start to be a case for using higher of effects for an AP/AD ratio instead of one or the other or dual-scaling? This could both help AD trist, and give AP trist a late game.


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Lemano

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
The explosive shot rework looks interesting. I'm just curious if there's a balanced way to get the grievous wounds effect back in it. Also, might this start to be a case for using higher of effects for an AP/AD ratio instead of one or the other or dual-scaling? This could both help AD trist, and give AP trist a late game.
OH YEAH...I totally forgot to put that in there haha. Thanks for reminding me! I wanted to put it back in there to have a scaling grievous wounds debuff by 10/20/30/40/50% healing debuff with the level of the spell. So it's there in terms of being there as a debuff, and balances for late game as well. We can give it both AD and AP ratios, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Editing it in. Thanks for the catch!


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Gynsingg

Member

10-10-2012

bump


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PunishmentDivine

Senior Member

10-10-2012

bump


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GGitsnidalee

Senior Member

10-10-2012

bump


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hi im steb

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Make it so that her jump is programmed as a blink, not a dash.


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Twistana

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemano View Post
Hey Classick! I know you might be busy with the continuation of the World Finals and even with just balancing and design stuff in general however, I would like to talk to you about my favorite megling gunner Tristana.

Tristana as we know is one of the oldest AD carries of the league, and has been past up on quality of life changes as well as skill changes for a while now.

While many other carries have shined above her at every stage of the game, she reigns supreme in one area; late game. The only other hero that's actually really good late game, or ultra late game rather is Kog'Maw.

To start off this discussion, I'm going to link her base stats as well as her abilities and their damages and ratios:

================================================== ===============

Tristana, the Megling Gunner

Stats

Health: 415 (+82)

Health Regen: 5.1 (+0.65)

Mana: 193 (+32)

Mana Regen: 3.95 (+0.25)

Range: 550

Attack Damage: 46.5 (+3)

Attack Speed: 0.658 (+3.01%)

Armor: 15 (+3)

Magic Resistance: 30

Movement Speed: 300

================================================== ===============

Passive
Draw a Bead: Tristana increases her auto attack range by 9 every time she levels up (does not include level one). At level 18, the bonus is 153 (703 total range).

Q
Rapid Fire: ACTIVE: Increases Tristana's attack speed for 7 seconds.

Manacost: 80

CD: 20

Attack Speed Boost: 30% / 45% / 60% / 75% / 90%

******

W
Rocket Jump:
ACTIVE: Tristana fires at the ground to propel herself to a target location, dealing magic damage and slowing surrounding units by 60% for 2.5 seconds when she lands. On kills or assists, Rocket Jump's cooldown resets.

Manacost: 80

CD: 22/20/18/16/14

Range: 900

Magic Damage: 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+ 80% AP)
******

E
Explosive Shot PASSIVE: Enemies explode when slain by Tristana's basic attacks, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies.

ACTIVE: Explosive Shot rends the target enemy, reducing healing and health regeneration by 50% and dealing magic damage over 5 seconds.

Manacost: 50/60/70/80/90

CD: 16

Range: 625

Magic Damage: EXPLOSION MAGIC DAMAGE: / 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 (+ 25% AP)

EXPLOSION DIAMETER: 150

SHOT MAGIC DAMAGE: 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 / 230 (+ 100% AP)
******

R
Buster Shot ACTIVE: Tristana fires a massive cannonball at an enemy unit, dealing magic damage and knocking them and surrounding units back.

Manacost: 140

CD: 60

Range: 700

Magic Damage: MAGIC DAMAGE: 300 / 400 / 500 (+ 150% AP)

KNOCKBACK DISTANCE: 600 / 800 / 1000

KNOCKBACK FORCE WIDTH: 200
******

So as we can see, her base stats aren't that bad. However, the biggest thing that's her problem are just the fact most of her spells scale off of ability power.

Her early game power is beyond comprehension, only rivaling Ezreal and even Draven that can most likely out class her in a straight fight.

Her laning phase; in my opinion, is out classed for the fact she has an extremely clunky auto attack, and her cast times are extremely long in cast time (besides her ult).

Her mid game is extremely hard to play around for it has that feel of "you're technically a good auto attacker, but not really" and still need more items than a early game/mid game carry hero; such as, Corki, Graves, Ezreal, Miss Fortune, Draven, Sivir, Kog and hell even Twitch.

Her late game is beyond phenomenal with extremely good positioning, vision and just having the items to dish out the dps from afar. It's only rivaled by Kog'Maw who has the innate %HP shred and longer range on his W.

TL;DR

Pros:
  • Good early game
  • Extremely good late game
  • Pretty long range late game capping at 713
  • Good burst early lvls, and scales to late game if you have the items to shred them or even burst them if you go ap

Cons
  • Extremely hard mid game
  • Pushes way too hard when trying to hold lane due to Explosive Shot
  • HEAVILY Item dependent
  • Extremely Clunky auto attack and cast time of spells
  • Very Low Uptime of Her ASPD Steroid

******

Proposed Changes/Buffs
  • Have EITHER a) A higher uptime on her ASPD Steroid from the lack luster 7 seconds to some where around 9-11 seconds to make her feel more of like a "hero" so to speak when right clicking, or b) lower the CD and Manacost of her Q and increase it's duration by a tiny bit so it's warranted to level up early in the laning phase.
  • All of her spells, SHOULD increase with the range increase of her passive. When late game comes around I feel like all of my abilities are useless in the mid to late game stages of the game due to me having to be pretty much in melee range to cast them on any of the enemy teams, and I end up getting rolled by the enemy team trying to harrass them down with spells.
  • Her Explosive Shot needs a lowered CD at later levels. The 16 second CD of it is just way too long for the duration that it gives, IMO.

Proposed Rework to her Explosive Shot: REWORK: Passive: Explosive shot is now a full fledged passive causing Tristana's auto attacks to do passive magic damage in a form of a DOT (like her Explosive shot now) stacking up to a cap of 4. Damage: 20/30/40/50/60 (+.06 bonus AD)(+0.25 AP). Grievous Wounds is reworked into the level up of the skill. So at Level 1/2/3/4/5 of the spell, the healing reduction increases by 10/20/30/40/50% on her auto attacks, and lasts the same time as her DOT.

Whenever Tristana kills a minion or a hero with the passive on them they explode in a radius doing explosive damage to anything around them. That AoE damage is the same as it is now.

This ability can now be toggled On/Off.

With this change, and the increase to her other abilities range with her passive range increase, along with her QoL changes I think she would be in a good spot after the fact. Again testing will prove if it is good enough or not. Anyway, hopefully Classick you'll be able to read this in your spare time to come up with a discussion of what you think needs changing with her or, if she needs no changes at all.

This thread is open for a thoughtful discussion and deep input from the community, so feel free to talk it up here guys and tell me what you like/dislike/or don't want to see on our beloved Gunner!

-Lemano

PS: First long post, so please be gentle :P

EDIT: Added AP ratio into her reworked explosive shot as well as the grievous wounds as well.
All I saw was....

Tristana now has permanent grievous wounds, and nobody can duel her now because of it...

I say, turn explosive sshot into a toggle....hear me out....

Normally she will always deal a small DoT to any target she hits and yes having it stack is fine....

Here's the real change though..... when she toggles it her attacks gain grievous wounds, and the ability to pop any enemiqes she kills for explosive magic dmg.... but it can only last 8 seconds and cossts 8 mana per hit.


Yep....tristana fixed... oh and I forgot, because we essentially nerf her explosive shot pretty hard with this change, it now gains an AD ratio and deals physical damage buh bam, tristana is AMAZING.


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LOLOLOLAVABURST

Member

10-10-2012

As a huge Tristana fan I agree with this. Passively pushing your lane can be frustrating putting you behind so your mid game sucks even more than it does now. Trist does amazing damage early game with all of her burst and her late game is awesome. But her E is a hinderance at times and her jump is really really clunky like stated before. Please fix her Riot!!!!


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Bagel Lux

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Junior Member

10-10-2012

Bump. Tristana's a pretty cool megling.


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Lemano

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagel Lux View Post
Bump. Tristana's a pretty cool megling.
TY!


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