Kha'Zix, in a good spot?

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Griftrix

Senior Animation Engineer

10-10-2012
3 of 3 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOODFOOD View Post
What about other maps, Griftrix? He's pretty broken in Dominion and strong in TT.
Havn't played him in other maps. I've been focusing on ranked solo and 5s to try to get better and improve my elo to gold.


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Siky

Senior Member

10-10-2012

The arguing doesn't make much sense, honestly I see a lot of people with different opinions on Kha'Zix that have varying degrees of experiences, both good and bad with or against him. You can actually just break down what he's good at and how you can play him to already figure out why he's good or bad.

How many junglers can kill you with just blue mid if you are full health, have flash and are standing on your half of the lane, right outside of flash range to the tower. KZ can, I jungle a lot and I have to say not a lot of junglers can do that and he manages to do most of the damage by himself.

Even if you don't kill, you can burn someone's HP pots mid by knocking off half their health instantly before walking back into the jungle to continue farming.

You don't need to kill to pressure lanes or do well, you just need your lanes to win while you build up power. That means buying the right items for how much gold you're getting, getting the right skills, evolving the right skills and playing the right way depending on your situation and your team's comp.

He can be built as a bruiser that initiates and gets in there without needing to flee due to trading damage for durability, but the fact that he doesn't have any CC makes him undesirable in that role. Bruisers need CC to be effective which is why I kind of argue Mundo is vastly overrated as a jungler and that he only works in the late game NA/EU meta, but he doesn't work when the game never even gets there. Mundo's competitve track record is terrible even though he technically does a lot of things well, KZ suffers from the same thing Mundo does and that is if you build him as a bruiser without CC, he's exactly the same as Mundo except he doesn't have an Ult that regenerates his health every minute.

Basically, KZ needs a tanky top/jungler that can initiate and survive in a team fight with a team that has a good amount of CC to succeed.

He's an average bruiser if built that way, he's an above average assassin in a meta where assassins either snowball to victory or don't snowball and do nothing, and as a jungler he has incredible ganks, but even if you succeed people often fall behind in levels and mid game they lose all that power they built up because they don't know how to balance farming/leveling with ganking so they end up being level 14 with 8-12 kills vs a 0-X-X tank/bruiser that just destroys him anyways because they still get to level 17/18 first and it makes a difference since a lot of those kills have diminishing gold values attached and players who don't understand that find themselves unable to continue carrying when they are super fed.


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SubToMeOnYoutube

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Havn't played him in other maps. I've been focusing on ranked solo and 5s to try to get better and improve my elo to gold.
Hey can i add you and duo with you. im at 1130 elo. Looking for other players to carry out of elo hell and have fun with


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Ginga

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
You're probably better than me. I'm average. In the teamfight stage, you don't initate. You wait a bit, then BAM jump on the ADC, great, he's dead or assist, jump refresh BAM jump on the next squishiest, great another E refresh. I have built Khazix expensive squishy damage + GA and gotten a tripple kill when GA procced, and the rest of my team was dead. You do need lots of kills to make that work, so ganking is key. Control the ward vision with pinks (not oracles, cause you die too easily). He doesn't fit in every team comp, but if you have 2 tanks, then I would play him jungle.

So you don't have to look it up, solo elo 1126 right now. I can't really say what he does in other elos, but I CAN say he's very fun for me to play, and has taught me how assassins play differently.
Meh, my experience playing in a friends computer and my own tells me ELO between 800-1800 or so are pretty much all the same anyways. So we're the same I guess.

I think the problem is your build is too expensive for a jungle. As you said, your build requires a massive amount of gold so you're too reliant at getting a lot of kills/assists early. If all of your lanes are pushed, that's not always possible, and the best you can do is just ward sweep or counter-jungle. Of course, if you went to a solo lane, you'll find the AP mid getting free harass off you and the top lane bruiser directly countering you by virtue of you being an AD Assassin.



Now I know he is an Assassin. but my biggest success with him have been an AD-centric bruiser. He's not like Fizz who can just jump in, blow up the Carry, and pole-jump out. And he isn't like Rengar who gets free tanky stats upon using his W. So in my opinion he has a hard time assassinating. Black Cleaver+Maw of Malmortius. Maybe a Last Whisper. But beyond that, a Frozen Heart, GA, or some other high survivability item appears to be a must on him. His R doesn't help as much as I wish it did. The time it takes for him to enter stealth is already enough for a coordinated team to reduce his health by half or more. The 40% dmg-red from evolving it isn't going to change that one bit.

Be like any other assassin and wait for their cc and spells to be blown first, then leap to their backlines and do as much damage as possible. He doesn't have the built in survivability necessary to afford going full AD glass cannon.


The two times I saw an enemy Kha'zix was when I was playing Draven and Graves. Here's what happens. Both times they will jump onto me. I just stand my ground and fight. His damage is diminished because I had Janna or Nautilus guarding me in the two games. When it's clear I will win, they will ult, and I just run into the closest bush since that's likely where he'll go with only 1 second of stealth. As you can guess, he died.This is why I believe building him as a bruiser is more successful. AD Carries are squishy, so you'll deal tons of damage to them regardless of your build. But a Frozen Heart would have turned that fight completely around. He won't blow me up, but since I'm not isolated, he isn't going to blow me up even with glass cannon build anyways.


Despite all that. He's still an insect champion. He is the sole insect champion in all ~100 champions in the entire game. I will love him regardless of whether he can assassinate or bruise. Any plans of another insect in the coming years?


PS - Black Cleaver is amazingly helpful on him if you build survivability. He'll be less bursty and more DPS-y. But his burst isn't that great in teamfights anyways, and his Q is on a low cooldown, so it's clear he was designed to be DPS by design despite being an Assassin. Black Cleaver's armour shred will make your Q much stronger, and it gives your AA a kick. If you can take any advice, it's try to build some survivability, and build a Black Cleaver.


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DarkestMagi

Senior Member

10-10-2012

If the enemy team is generally tanky and/or has lots of cc you'll get wrecked regardless. And a huge factor of how well you do late-game is if you get off to a good enough start. I've seen Kha junglers turn out double-digit kills and i've seen Kha junglers totally fall off and contribute nothing. Definitely a hit or miss champ.


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16 Bit

Senior Member

10-10-2012

I just finished a ranked game as Irelia vs. a Kha'Zix top lane. I expected him to be aggressive especially since he had a Rengar jungle on his team but what he did was passive farm much like I was doing. He definitely leveled and evolved W first and played a great lane by poking from the brush and last hitting in melee when it was safe for him. He got the first two kills on me because I got overconfident and impatient and wanted to bully him out of lane. One of those was me tower diving him, something Irelia excels at doing, but he baited me at the turret with his ult and bam death. The other was with Jungle assist and me and my Jungler were outplayed.I know I'm 900 elo etc... but I don't see him as a weak top lane at all. His jungle definitely needs a lot of work though. His clear times are slow, his sustain is terrible, and his overall build just costs too much for a jungle to afford. The red post said he's very kill dependent and I agree. The issue is most people see him in game as jungle and make it a point to ward and play passive lanes because they know what he can do to them if they overextend. When I jungle him I usually end up gold starved, under leveled, and the first to die in team fights. He is super fun and I love his kit but he needs some tweaking for sure. If you buff his W too much though he'll be overpowered top lane.


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Flames of Rage

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
You're probably better than me. I'm average. In the teamfight stage, you don't initate. You wait a bit, then BAM jump on the ADC, great, he's dead or assist, jump refresh BAM jump on the next squishiest, great another E refresh. I have built Khazix expensive squishy damage + GA and gotten a tripple kill when GA procced, and the rest of my team was dead. You do need lots of kills to make that work, so ganking is key. Control the ward vision with pinks (not oracles, cause you die too easily). He doesn't fit in every team comp, but if you have 2 tanks, then I would play him jungle.

So you don't have to look it up, solo elo 1126 right now. I can't really say what he does in other elos, but I CAN say he's very fun for me to play, and has taught me how assassins play differently.

I'm 1233 elo, you should add me and we'll climb to gold together


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Sodaman64

Junior Member

10-10-2012

It is true that Kha zix is not the best team fighter but if your team corordanats proprely you could be very good at melting the ad/ap carry and other squishes. For exsample say you have a Tristana or some other Champ with a displacment skill Tristana ults the ad carry away form his team, you jump in and melt him then you jump back out and help where you can.
Its just a thought though.


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RedDevilCG

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Maybe there are just too many champions, and not all of them can be "the best." Just seams like tanky DPS is still the way to go.....


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BuilderBob93

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Havn't played him in other maps. I've been focusing on ranked solo and 5s to try to get better and improve my elo to gold.
It almost feels strange to see a Rioter where I was a year ago... not to be cocky or anything, your post just made me feel nostalgic. Keep getting better!