ADCarries vs initiation Heavy teams

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Eledhan

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
So the part of the problem with strat was that my team had inferior poke, so they would just get harassed out. But I guess that's another lesson learned. My team needs to either have initiation or poke. being inferior in both departments means that we lose teamfights.
Well, the problem is, you don't get to TELL others what to pick so your team is properly formed. All you can do is ask, and play your role as effectively as possible.

That's why it's so important to have the dashes/kiting ability, because if you don't get a team that understands what to do, your chances of survival go WAY down...and they go down even further if all you can do is walk around...

For a perfect example of exactly what I've been saying is the M5 vs. TPA series in the World Playoffs. M5 tried to play "protect the kog" 2 games straight and lost...TPA tried to play it in game 1 and lost...

When your ADC (primary late game damage) gets caught and/or can't fight due to the danger posed by the other team, your team has ZERO chance of winning a late game fight.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post
Well, the problem is, you don't get to TELL others what to pick so your team is properly formed. All you can do is ask, and play your role as effectively as possible.

That's why it's so important to have the dashes/kiting ability, because if you don't get a team that understands what to do, your chances of survival go WAY down...and they go down even further if all you can do is walk around...
yeah, you're exactly right and that's kind of what I meant.
I need to pick my champ based on my team, and if I have to pick early, I'll pick someone who is more self sufficient.


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EndlessReign

Member

10-15-2012

Mynt made a good point about staying in the fog of war until the opposing team blows some of their ults on your teammates. Another thing too is that you can emerge from the FoW momentarily to try to bait them into using some of their ults prematurely.

@FaerellG sounds like you had a perfect Sivir game going. LW would have come in handy for team fights but I think I would have built BT before IE for the extra sustain.

Sivir does require her team to know what is going on if she is going to be used to her full potential. A team strategy that has Sivir as adc should focus on putting pressure on turrets not necessarily winning team fights although eventually you would need to. Try to keep the enemy team focused on countering your pressure rather than just steam rolling your team. That being said it probably is a good idea to avoid using Sivir in solo queue at that elo. I lost a game this morning at an even lower elo and thinking about it now I never went into the top lane during mid/late game to push. Not saying it would have won me the game but it may have at least kept the other team guessing. The other team had a jungle malphite that got fed so no matter what it was pretty much over.


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EndlessReign

Member

10-15-2012

One thing too about Sivir is that I've considered building her more for pushing lanes and bringing down turrets. Mainly, I would take tele and flash instead of ignite and in my masteries I would put points in siege tower that gives me increased damage againts turrets plus if my support took the one that reduces turret armor that would be sick. What if my support took tele and flash also? Double sick.


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Invisibleally

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Senior Member

10-15-2012

Composition definitely plays a role, but I don't think that was to blame for this. Sounds like your positioning was fine, you stayed back and unloaded once the teamfight began as most ADCs should. I'm glad to hear that you didn't give in to the temptation to switch to defense when you were getting melted- I understand how you feel when, as the ADC, you're getting rocked.

Malph/Orianna/Hec combo on you is nasty, and it has enough range to ruin anybody. Orianna's a general pain in the ass (first class) but I think the key to their combo was MalphUlt+HecaRush. That's tricky, neither one is going down fast. When defense fails, it's best to change it up and be as aggressive as possible. I'm thinking that when the enemy's strategy proved too much for your defense to handle the only option remaining was to have your team plow headlong into them with everything and try to tear down their primary damage dealers while Malph/Heca/Oriana were trying to get in position to take you out.

When discretion fails, change your tactics. All this is assuming that they weren't so much stronger that your team shouldn't have been engaging, but I'm sure you would've mentioned if that was the case.

I turned a game around once by selling an item to afford warmogs with twitch and then stealthing and sneaking a tower and then an inhib. The enemy team caught and killed me, sure, but the damage was done and they wasted a few extra seconds of baron buff to run across the map and get me.

I'm going off on a tangent but my point is: If you are about to lose anyway, you have nothing to lose by trying something new.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

10-23-2012

So, I just wanted to come back and thank everyone for their advice. I just had another ranked game against a dive happy team:
Kat, Warwick, and Poppy
Their bot was Taric/Graves

They all dived the **** out of me at various points in time, the most painful was the poppy because my team can't peel her due to the ulti. Escaping her is also impossible due to poppy's movespeed and her slow proc on trinity as well as a gap closer (I know, I play poppy and wreck ADs all day long).

I ended the game with 9/6/9, and I think 4 or 5 of those deaths were to poppy, with Warwick and Kat contributing to the remainders.

I flat out told my team that I can't 1v1 Poppy, and because of the ulti they can't protect me, so I need to stay out of teamfights until she pops her ultimate or the fight is otherwise engaged. It worked really well. This is also in part that we had an exceptional Akali who fed off of the opposing Kat, and our Cho in the jungle was able to chunk poppy early with some good burst and solid true damage. Our Irellia was also able to score some good hits with her true damage as well to finish off poppy.

I also was wise and picked up QSS against WW. He jumped me when I was at half health. I QSSed out of it and my team chunked him hard.

I really could have thrown that game for my team, but I was keeping in mind the "stay way out of the fight" mentality until their divers are done diving. That kept me from feeding and helped turn the game around.


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