Who's better for learning support, Ali or Leona?

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Engasta

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guancyto View Post
If you already own Leona, go with her.

Playing Leona is ultimate speed training in gauging engagements. This is true of most initiators, but Leona does it earlier, more often, and is more unforgiving. If you choose a bad time to engage the enemy on Ali, your ultimate will at least keep you alive for a bit. If you choose a bad time to engage on Leona, you are dead.

She's very all-in, and very aggressive, and very fun. I recommend her.

Of note: her skillshot ignores minions. There are very few champions that can say that, so unless your enemies are very good their skillshot-avoiding instincts are all wrong when facing her. They'll try to run behind their line, because that will save them from blitz hooks.

It won't save them from Leona.

This is exactly the reason why I would not recommend Alistar or Leona. High risk, high reward plays mean that you either win or lose the lane. Making a bad play will often just make people angry with you. With Sona, Taric or Soraka, you can at least heal and protect your carry while they farm. When you cant offer sustain to the lane you're going to feel pretty useless if you get behind and cant engage.


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Fleegbomb

Junior Member

10-10-2012

Heres my take on the issue. I'm a 1550ish elo support player for the most part. I don't think it really matters which support you choose to learn the support role. Your main goal as a support is not really the mechanical aspect of the game (though it helps tremendously if you are mechanically strong). That being said. the idea behind support is helping your carry progress through the game. You need to know where and when to ward, when to use your summoners aggressively or defensively, how to protect your carry, and how to get your carry kills. As a support, you don't want to be wasting wards on an area that there is no chance of being ganked from.

Learning the matchups in lane is probably the most effective way of becoming a better support. Knowing how to play each lane will get you farther than learning any specific support. Some supports are good for certain things, and it is best to learn which things will benefit not only your adc, but your team as a whole. Say the enemy team has a lot of hard engage, Janna will be able to deflect a lot of it with her tornados and her ult. Leona on the other hand can bring your team the hard engage it may be lacking. Just make sure that the support you choose will bring something thats good for your entire team comp and not just your bot lane.


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Map Awareness

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Member

10-10-2012

Definitely Leona. Alistar's WQ combo is quite hard to pull, and pretty much requires you to have a ping below 100 to do it.


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Nureru

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Leona is my favorite support, and she can be extremely potent in the right hands. But she also relies on a lane partner that's willing and capable of going in when they need to. If you start winning your lane, then you're probably going to dominate, and late game the enemy team will hate you. If you don't, or your carry doesn't try to do anything but passively farm, you're going to be sad and worthless.

I strongly recommend Taric as well, because he's the second manliest champion in the league and he can do some of what Leona can along with some added sustain.


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iamriddik

Senior Member

10-10-2012

if you want to learn, play taric. his heal is big, his stun has a relatively short cd, and he's naturally tanky.


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Vamp13

Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guancyto View Post
If you already own Leona, go with her.

Playing Leona is ultimate speed training in gauging engagements. This is true of most initiators, but Leona does it earlier, more often, and is more unforgiving. If you choose a bad time to engage the enemy on Ali, your ultimate will at least keep you alive for a bit. If you choose a bad time to engage on Leona, you are dead.

She's very all-in, and very aggressive, and very fun. I recommend her.

Of note: her skillshot ignores minions. There are very few champions that can say that, so unless your enemies are very good their skillshot-avoiding instincts are all wrong when facing her. They'll try to run behind their line, because that will save them from blitz hooks.

It won't save them from Leona.
being behind your tank doesnt save you from leona.....


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Kikhan

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I have supported with both, and the style of their support is totally different. Sona support is also different. I don't think with either champion you can "learn support", but with either one you can learn how to support with them.

That said, I like Leona. She isn't a pokey harass support, she just helps the ADC go in for kills. If Alistar is available I use him in the jungle.

For Leona, I run MS quints, armor reds and yellows, and MR/L blues. You are going against an ADC and the extra damage helps. I also use 1/15/14 masteries for HP, movement, and gold stuff. Then i use flash/exhaust for summoner spells. My build order is boots, 1 ward, 2 pots. Then HoG while keeping the river warded. After that, it depends how you're doing in lane, but I like to build armor to keep the ADC from hurting me. Aegis or frozen heart is a good later item, but I've been told I should build a second gp/10.

Hope that helps!
This is solid. You might play with a few little things as a matter of preference but, a good base to build from. Tanky supports are better in the current game especially if the adc is not good at farming under the turret. With Leona and exhaust if they try and jump on your adc. You lock down their adc for about 5 seconds early game severely impacting their dmg. With Leona's passive you should be putting their adc out of lane if they go aggressive with either a kill or to low hp.

Grift I just do HoG but, instead of going for another armour early after HoG I'd say do a Giants belt her W if you are leveling it gives you enough defensive stats. You should also throw in the option of getting a cloth armour first if they have range on you like cait. Then look at a chain mail or negatron cloak depending how the game is developing. After that just build what the game is deciding. If you are dominating even look to geting an AP item like Abyssal or Zhonya's.

Ali is a good support but, people over rate his jungle because to many people get to far out of position early. If you make him waste his first 5 minutes on failed ganks his affect on the game is extremely lessened. You will prob be raged at for not jungling with him at this point. The nice thing about Ali is you can be a heal bot or a cc bot depending on how the game is going he is nicely flexible like that.

The squishy supports are hurting in the current game but, they will teach you more of what is considered the traditional no cs support role. They are the most effective if both sides have squishy supports and or your adc can farm under a turret very well.


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Rivayne

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvariceX View Post
You'll never get to pick Alistar.

If you want to learn a true support learn either Sona, Janna, or Taric. All of them are good supports and all bring a lot to teamfights later in the game. Soraka is a mediocre support and her lane is helpless while her W is on cooldown.

Leona and Blitz are both good to learn so you understand kill-lane support.
Did you seriously just call Soraka a mediocre support in laning phase?


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Mirodir

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

If you're new and only have those two. Go with Alistar.
Alistar is far more forgiving. When you initiate something on bot-lane then you can at least hope to get away in case you play Alistar. If you pick a bad fight bot with Leona chances are high that you'll die. Unless you're one of those people who need to learn the hardest way possible to feel they accomplished something...pick Alistar. If you want a real challenge, pick Leona.
Leona goes more all-in than Alistar when she initiates.

Apart from this. For learning agressive-support, I'd go with Blitzcrank. You can stay in the safer back and learn how to aim and hit skillshots while you slowly start to learn how aggressive you can be without dying (running up to them and fisting them into the air without hook and stuff like that).

Also...what you should never forget: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSHvzZy1YZA


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AmbushIntheDark

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I have supported with both, and the style of their support is totally different. Sona support is also different. I don't think with either champion you can "learn support", but with either one you can learn how to support with them.

That said, I like Leona. She isn't a pokey harass support, she just helps the ADC go in for kills. If Alistar is available I use him in the jungle.

For Leona, I run MS quints, armor reds and yellows, and MR/L blues. You are going against an ADC and the extra damage helps. I also use 1/15/14 masteries for HP, movement, and gold stuff. Then i use flash/exhaust for summoner spells. My build order is boots, 1 ward, 2 pots. Then HoG while keeping the river warded. After that, it depends how you're doing in lane, but I like to build armor to keep the ADC from hurting me. Aegis or frozen heart is a good later item, but I've been told I should build a second gp/10.

Hope that helps!
While I'm sure that leona build works I find that mine does fairly well too :

0/15/15
2 MS quint 1 gp10
armor reds
1 armor yellow and the rest gp10
flat mana regen blues

Getting the baseline 3 gp10 from your runes is pretty important incase you dont do so well in lane.

as for items I usually build standard support, charm, 4 wards and a pot into philo boots HoG. I like philo over HoG because the hp regen helps you more if you take the occasional poke and philo + runes make it so you dont have to worry about mana.

That being said I think Ali is the best support to learn the lane. He can chill back and heal, be aggressive, be a tank, and has a lot of cc and tricks to learn. I think he gives a more overall experience when compared to the specialty supports like sona, leona or soraka.