@Morello: Let's talk Varus

First Riot Post
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Kikhan

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Senior Member

10-11-2012

To some degree I agree with this. The only time I feel the fulfillment of playing Varus though is with AP/attk spd builds. Unfortunately those mostly only hold up in a faster paced game like Dom or Murderbridge.


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FelixNz

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Senior Member

10-11-2012

Nice breakdown, I've only played him a couple of times, and I really want to like Varus, but I wan't quite able to nail down what I wasn't connecting with about him - I think you nailed it.

To me he feels like a ranged caster with AD carry stats sometimes. Q is immensely rewarding to land at max range, but to do that you're spending a lot of time not attacking, using it quickfire is pretty much worthless. It seems llike auto-ing then using the slow is better, but often you don't really have that choice, as you need to slow, to close distance, then auto. Keen to hear other thoughts


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

10-11-2012
2 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maligan View Post
I guess that Varus designer red never got to this thread. A shame.
Sorry for the lack of response, incredibly swamped with work at the moment. Would love to talk about Varus' design process, current state and comparison with other champions in detail and will return to this thread for that. Will be at least a few days and possibly a bit longer than that though until I've got time to do so properly, apologies.


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NVDax

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Sorry for the lack of response, incredibly swamped with work at the moment. Would love to talk about Varus' design process, current state and comparison with other champions in detail and will return to this thread for that. Will be at least a few days and possibly a bit longer than that though until I've got time to do so properly, apologies.
Just don't forget about us


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Sorry for the lack of response, incredibly swamped with work at the moment. Would love to talk about Varus' design process, current state and comparison with other champions in detail and will return to this thread for that. Will be at least a few days and possibly a bit longer than that though until I've got time to do so properly, apologies.
But when you picture this post being read in Ziggs's voice, it's all okay.


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FrozenDeity

Senior Member

10-11-2012

bump for a hot fresh serving of balance!


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DoozleDorf

Senior Member

10-11-2012

I like Varus a lot....he was the first champion I bought, but he does feel kinda bad playing him. I relate to the OP's original points. Although, I actually wouldn't mind seeing the range on his E extended slightly. This would not only make bursting the stacks with it easier when your target turns to flee, but would also then give the ability to slow the fleeing target more consistent. While it was always a bummer to have to burn his ulti as a last ditch escape mechanism, I think making his E cause slow to any enemy entering the space really has helped his escape ability overall.

However, that does nothing to solve the main issue the OP has with him: bursting those blighted stacks at all, and specifically with E (as an 'only' choice). Someone on page 1 suggested auto-bursting of the stacks after a period of time (and at reduced bonus damage), and I really kind of like that idea as, ultimately, he winds up as an auto-attacking (mainly) ADC by the time I put items on him.

I have tried most every possible leveling order, but usually wind up going:
E>W>Q>E>W>R>W.... and finish leveling them W>E>R>Q. I agree that Q is strong early, and then just dies off, which is why I usually delay its level completion.

What bothers me most though, I think, is that I feel like his passive and W should be switched entirely, with the new W being able to be activated for a short AS steroid, and the stacks should increase their bonus damage with level (as a passive).

For QoL, his run has always bothered me... it is so unnatural as to be nearly impossible for anyone to actually move as he does. Also, he has such a herky-jerky attack animation. I think his dance is the worst in the game, but I understand a lot of people like it and find it fitting (to some of his voice-overs).

Any love and attention he's given will be well deserved...he's a great Champion, but could definitely be even better.


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Sharag

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Sorry for the lack of response, incredibly swamped with work at the moment. Would love to talk about Varus' design process, current state and comparison with other champions in detail and will return to this thread for that. Will be at least a few days and possibly a bit longer than that though until I've got time to do so properly, apologies.
It's cool. Take your time, I know that you all must be pretty busy with the Finals and everything. I look forward to the future discussion.

Thanks!


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Agg

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Sorry for the lack of response, incredibly swamped with work at the moment. Would love to talk about Varus' design process, current state and comparison with other champions in detail and will return to this thread for that. Will be at least a few days and possibly a bit longer than that though until I've got time to do so properly, apologies.
If you're looking in to changing anything, I think maybe making his abilities leave 1 stack of blight would help him a lot.

For example, you get a 3 stack on someone then q them. The 3 stack detonates, the target has 1 fresh blight on them (as does anything else his q hits),

If that's too powerful, maybe have it leave a blight only if a blight is already present.


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Renaito Yuujou

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Senior Member

10-12-2012

Mm, as far as Varus' design goes, I like the way he looks on paper. In practice, his combos execute alright, and it looks like he is working as intended. The problem is that, while working as intended, he doesn't appear to be better at doing what he does than other AD carries like Graves etc are at doing what they do. The simplest answer would be to give popping Blighted Quiver stacks more damage (it actually doesn't do that much), but I don't think that would do Varus' design any justice. Rather, I think popping the stacks of BQ should continue with what Varus is already good at, and that is offering utility. Varus has a great ult, and an AOE slow and healing debuff. Giving popped BQ stacks another, separate debuff would work well to increase Varus' playability.

Oh, I know! Since the AS debuff is being removed from Ezreal, why not give it to Varus when he pops DQ stacks instead? Popping the DQ stacks requires a good deal more effort than Ezreal's point and click W does (or soon to be used to), so the trade off of skill required to use the ability versus reward would be more reasonable. And you can have it scale up from 1 stack being a tiny AS debuff to 3 stacks being a noticeable AS debuff.