Review my case...

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Exploding Barrel

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UninstaII Life View Post
If his last case was successfully appealed then that means he never should have been punished in the first place. Why should a player be denied further appeals after being victimized by a broken system? If anything, this player deserves a genuine apology from Riot for royally fcking up not once, but TWICE. A player can end up in the Tribunal a hundred times, but the mere allegation of breaking rules does not justify punishment--only ACTUALLY breaking the rules does.
A link directly to the first of several red posts contradicting this post, for everyone's convenience: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...17370#27617370


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LittleDi

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GunflameSmurf View Post
- LittleDi is basically saying "you don't know what you are doing... you are bad at this game"
It doesn't look like you actually know what you're doing on your mastery pages. Suggest you set them up with better builds.

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...-scroll-155276
This for example contains a ryze build.

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...mid-top-244692
And an eve guide.

I never declared you are bad at the game. Only that your mastery pages are looking pretty close to garbage. At least they are filled in but their purposes are not specialized for anything. That being said feel free to critique my builds:

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/20286327#masteries
Quote:
I don't die on purpose... that's a fact... maybe I die more often than I should... maybe I make poor decisions of what I think would be good or bad fights, but I don't die on purpose. So basically you are saying I'm being punished for being bad at the game.
I'm not sure how you play. It doesn't sound good though. Even after the last pardon on the forum. I never claimed to be "good" either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1wLgEMbEso
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2RYD9sIA6Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OUAjBxBUTw

Old video of my gameplay as Lee Sin. 3 parts, and focuses more on my ally and friend (because he has the fraps) but we learn from reviewing the old plays. You might wana try a few league replays instead.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/download/

This would give you a chance to review/adapt/grow from your previous game play. Learn what you did, why you did it, and how to avoid mistakes in the future.
Quote:
What would you call a "be better team player"? Just be better at the game?

About the bot challenge: I'll try it out when I have some time
The bot challenge is very difficult solo summoners rift. You don't choose which 5 bots you are fighting alone. You spend zero gold. Your objective is the same as always. Win the match.


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Convict24601

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UninstaII Life View Post
If his last case was successfully appealed then that means he never should have been punished in the first place. Why should a player be denied further appeals after being victimized by a broken system? If anything, this player deserves a genuine apology from Riot for royally fcking up not once, but TWICE. A player can end up in the Tribunal a hundred times, but the mere allegation of breaking rules does not justify punishment--only ACTUALLY breaking the rules does.
What? I'm not implying that one should be punished for being innocent...being in the tribunal a hundred times and being innocent a hundred times is okay in my book. I also never said that one should not be denied of further appeals after already having one cased appealed before. What I AM saying, is that I'm likely to be suspicious of this guy's true motive. He has already been deemed to be a toxic player before so his credibility of being just a mere good guy that's having a bad day is not as likely as I would believe. To make it clear, if I had to base him off of that case he posted alone, I would probably very reluctantly pardon him on the bases that it didn't seem that he was displaying any OBVIOUS form of toxicity =/


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GunflameSmurf

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Convict24601 View Post
you ARE purposely engaging in 1v5 fights or making really horrible decisions that gets you killed

THIS:
you ARE purposely engaging in 1v5 fights

IS NOT THE SAME AS THIS:
or making really horrible decisions that gets you killed

The first one is bannable offense... the second one is not...


Lets see:
Game 1: I don't remember this game... But from the chat you can tell that I died way too much since the beginning during laning phase. It wasn't running into 5v1 that got me that scored, it was that I got owned early game and I couldn't get back. Even when I started to make a difference you can read the enemy chat and see what they do... they were focusing me and ezreal... So even after a bad early game the enemy team considered enough of a threat to focus me and ezreal. I wasn't dying for free... I was getting focused.

Katarina[00:25:47] :dude
Katarina[00:25:51] :just ofucs
Katarina[00:25:53] :ryze
Katarina[00:25:54] :and ez


Game 2:
Blitzcrank[00:03:03] :trist ill take a tiny bit of cs
Blitzcrank[00:03:08] :just so you know <--- is this offensive? bad mattered? am I trying to stir controversy?
Tristana[00:03:19] :im going jugnle
Tristana[00:03:24] :go play ur lane
Tristana[00:03:25] :1v2
Blitzcrank[00:04:08] :nice tristana decided
Blitzcrank[00:04:10] :she is not laning bot

She leave the lane and AFTER ONE FULL MINUTE OF TROLLING (that's 2-3 minion waves of me alone) she says
Tristana[00:04:17] :cause u wanna get cs right ?

Of course I'm pissed... I almost never play support and when I did... I get this Tristana. Did I insult her or was offensive? Of course I was not an angel, he was trolling me hardcore... the question is... did I act in a way that deserved punished? If your answer is yes, at least tell me why.

Oh I had a 0/7/3... under the circunstances of this game... is it intentional feeding?

Game 3:
Here's is something you don't see in the chat with ease... but if you read carefully you can see it:

Ryze[00:04:51] :swap?
Jarvan IV[00:04:51] :stop feeding him
Gragas[00:05:49] :kinda hard
Vayne[00:06:04] :lol
Ryze[00:06:08] :swap
Gragas[00:06:08] :see that
Ryze[00:06:09] :come mid
Gragas[00:06:10] :what do i do
Ryze[00:07:02] :gragas COME MMId
Ryze[00:07:09] :are you cool top
Ryze[00:07:14] :cuz if you aren't come mid


Gragas 15/7/6

Gragas was getting owned top... REAL hard. I ask him to switch.... I was OWNING Vlad... I did NOT kill him, but he was severely getting zoned out. You can read it in chat. Later on I started doing terrible and gragas started doing well.

Ryze[00:08:02] k i'll just own vlad harder

Gragas[00:18:32] :somehow im doing well now

Jarvan IV [All][00:25:10] :RYZE NO 1
Nautilus [All][00:25:18] :stfu and teamchat
Jarvan IV [All][00:25:29] :TT its ok you died naut
Jarvan IV [All][00:25:33] :you and ryze can start a club
Jarvan IV [All][00:25:33] :you and ryze can start a club
Nautilus [All][00:25:34] :bad jarv is bad
Vladimir [All][00:25:37] :he owned me in mid

Jarvan IV[00:34:38] :where the **** did these skills come from
Gragas[00:34:56] :they were always there
Gragas[00:34:57] :but
Gragas[00:35:00] :i got killed early

Ok so after owning Vlad in mid I did pretty bad overall in this game... Was I reported for bad attitude? or for bad skills? I really can't recall how this game went. I don't know why I died so much... I stopped being "nice" when he started to call me a feeder... in that case I asked him to stop calling me a feeder, which ended in how it is shown in the chat.

Game 4:
2 things here:
- My attitude: Did I deserve to be punished for my attitude? (chat log).
- Intentional Feeding: Here I can't defend myself because first... I don't remember the game, second... I know I didn't die on purpose... I never die on purpose, but I didn't say anything in chat and I didn't say much in chat (except that I wasn't doing well).

It is obvious I made some poor decisions in this game, this goes bad to being bad at the game.
Skarner[00:31:01] :this ****gin zyra
Skarner[00:31:04] :blows all of her ****
Skarner[00:31:08] :before the team fight
Skarner[00:31:12] :no ult no nothing
Skarner[00:31:16] :wastes it on ****gin mumu solo

If you wanna say that I was intentionally feeding in the 4th case... fine say so. I don't see any indications of dying or purpose, but sadly nothing that says that I didn't die on purpose. I had twice the deaths of my allies and about the same kills+assists. So the question here would be... would you punish me for this game? why?

Little Di: 22/7/1 with EVERY summoner skill option
This is my "evelynn" page. Which I change between jungle evelynn and mid/top evelynn. If I had 3 summoner spells selected is because I was changing it during champion select and I either forgot that one point or I wasn't quick enough to change it. Either way... "bad masteries" and are synonim of being bad at the game... they are not synonism of trying to purposely troll your team.

Yes I like tank masteries in both ryze and Yorick. I think they don't gain much from Offensive masteries and that the tanky masteries help both early and late game. You are welcomed to disagree with this, but do you really think they are that bad that I'm doing it on purpose to despite my team? or that maybe I just like being tanky with ryze and yorick.


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BillyTheAttorney

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UninstaII Life View Post
If there are 50,000 cases per week that means there are approximately 7,143 cases per day. If we are seeing 1-2 false positives per day out of the 14 expected based on a 0.2% error rate, that means we are seeing approximately 10% of the errors. In order for you to conclude that this is indicative of an error rate of lower than 0.2%, we would need to be seeing more than 710 true positives each day on the forums (assuming an equivalent 10% likelihood of being discussed). The numbers are nowhere even close to that.

Furthermore, you realize that the reason why people get banned from the forums for the duration of their Tribunal ban is to make it harder for them to create discussions about their cases, right? This, along with many other factors, creates a huge bias in terms of which cases actually get discussed on the forums at all, rendering any attempt at mathematical modeling that doesn't take it into account completely nonsensical.

As a side note, Lyte also claims that the Tribunal is effective at filtering out false reports via the credibility system. It takes about 15 seconds worth of reviewing cases to demonstrate exactly how full of sht his claims are. The Tribunal is completely inundated with false reports as evidenced by this case and countless others.

I like the numbers - it makes for the type of argument that I enjoy discussing one way or the other. So, can I ask you: If the current Tribunal is unfair in your opinion, with false positives and inherent bias (I agree with you on the inherent bias part of your argument, if I disagree with other things) what system would you have in place if you were tasked with the powers of creating a system to remove and/or subdue actual toxic behavior?

Not trolling you Uninstall Life - I'm just curious.

As for the OP - looking over his cases, I think I stated I would have pardoned. I take each tribunal report as it's own entity. You should not be punished of you die (or for being "bad") just whether or not you are doing so intentionally. I agree with that logic. I also agree that previous reports should have no bearing on whether or not current reports are ban-worthy. Previous punishments should only taken into account when determining an appropriate punishment for a current Tribunal suspension.

If people were to ask me the one thing I disagree with the most with the Tribunal is the lack of an efficient appeals process, or at the very least - the lack of a transparent appeals process. I believe that there should be a system for appeals if you are banned rather then sending a support ticket. Like you need to detail out what someone needs to submit/write and then have almost like someone on staff who's job it is to review an appeal for any time-based bans (I don't think warnings should be appealed. They're warnings) and have a frank discussion with the banned player about "explain to me why you did this in this situation?"

Perhaps it takes some time and resources - but that is always the cost of any system that is supposed to address anti-social behavior. Be it court, human resources, drug and alcohol counseling, etc.

That's my one gripe with the Tribunal. But again, I recognize my bias as one being from my own point of view as influenced both educationally and professionally.

/soapbox


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ObsidianNight

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GunflameSmurf View Post
- Addalyn: "One thing we can't see but was a common theme in the reports is you dived in when you were by yourself and against multiple opponents. This may not be intentional feeding by the exact definition but it sure is close"

I don't die on purpose... that's a fact... maybe I die more often than I should... maybe I make poor decisions of what I think would be good or bad fights, but I don't die on purpose. So basically you are saying I'm being punished for being bad at the game.


What would you call a "be better team player"? Just be better at the game?

About the bot challenge: I'll try it out when I have some time
Also remember I said I'm not sure, and I would probably have skipped this one (at least I think it was this thread I said it) I really was on the fence with it. All I said is things look suspect so I understand the punish. As far as how to be a better team player, listen to your team, don't charge in 1 v4 or even 1 v2 unless you know you can double kill.

Here is the unfortunate position your in. The majority of time cases like these are people that have learned how to grief and get away with it. But this is why I would've skipped the case, there just isn't enough either way. I can't pardon it because I have reservation, I also wouldn't have punished because I have reservations. This is one of those cases when being able to see the percent of time your reported (which there was a post today or ystrdy about them maybe adding that) would've helped in giving a definitive verdict on this case.


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XFactorDieminion

Senior Member

10-11-2012

This is clearly a Pardon case. You can't ban someone for being bad at the game. This is why the Tribunal fails...... this case just proves it.

Anyone who even thinks of Punishing this case is just looking for a excuses to hit the Punish button.


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Exploding Barrel

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Guys, Uninstall Life is our forum pet troll, she bugs us since her account is banned and admits she's only here to troll. No need to tire your fingers out responding, might as well be talking to a wall.


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LittleDi

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GunflameSmurf View Post
Little Di: 22/7/1 with EVERY summoner skill option
This is my "evelynn" page. Which I change between jungle evelynn and mid/top evelynn. If I had 3 summoner spells selected is because I was changing it during champion select and I either forgot that one point or I wasn't quick enough to change it. Either way... "bad masteries" and are synonim of being bad at the game... they are not synonism of trying to purposely troll your team.

Yes I like tank masteries in both ryze and Yorick. I think they don't gain much from Offensive masteries and that the tanky masteries help both early and late game. You are welcomed to disagree with this, but do you really think they are that bad that I'm doing it on purpose to despite my team? or that maybe I just like being tanky with ryze and yorick.
Quote me next time please rather than bold it.

A tanky ryze doesn't do as much burst damage. It's also not part of his tags. Mage, ranged, recommended are his. His job is to burst the enemy down to 0. You're not the primary ward user, but your tanky ryze build includes giving your wards more vision. It also doesn't take advantage of the high support line to get faster cooldowns (ultra skill spam mode), or the offensive tree's magic pen. This cuts your damage output down by a large chunk. Assuming you used this on your last ranked ryze match you did cripple your team's damage output as the ap carry. You didn't build ap items either.

Banshee's Veil is a far less useful item than a Rod of Ages on Ryze. If you were suffering from Rammus taunts then you should of saved your rune prison to hold him off. If you were having trouble with ability power spams from other champions then Abyssal Scepter would of been the way to go.

I have no problem with the Merc Treads. I would of done that also with rammus on the field unless I was severely behind in gold. While many people would probably not do this if I was desperate to catch up on gold I'd of started building up to Eleisa's Miracle instead, keeping my shoe based item for either ionian/sorcerers. More likely for sorcerers instead due to my use of utility/offense/runes for 40% cdr without purchase items.

I'm also a fan of Lich bane on Ryze. Cast a skill, do an auto attack, and crank that damage. I'll play a match vs bots as Ryze now and see how I do.


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Exploding Barrel

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UninstaII Life View Post
If there are 50,000 cases per week that means there are approximately 7,143 cases per day. If we are seeing 1-2 false positives per day out of the 14 expected based on a 0.2% error rate, that means we are seeing approximately 10% of the errors. In order for you to conclude that this is indicative of an error rate of lower than 0.2%, we would need to be seeing more than 710 true positives each day on the forums (assuming an equivalent 10% likelihood of being discussed). The numbers are nowhere even close to that.

Furthermore, you realize that the reason why people get banned from the forums for the duration of their Tribunal ban is to make it harder for them to create discussions about their cases, right? This, along with many other factors, creates a huge bias in terms of which cases actually get discussed on the forums at all, rendering any attempt at mathematical modeling that doesn't take it into account completely nonsensical.

As a side note, Lyte also claims that the Tribunal is effective at filtering out false reports via the credibility system. It takes about 15 seconds worth of reviewing cases to demonstrate exactly how full of sht his claims are. The Tribunal is completely inundated with false reports as evidenced by this case and countless others.
-Why would true positives post on the forums?

-Obviously they don't, or Gunflame wouldn't be posting this thread.

-If these are "countless," you can't count very high. I see 2-3 this week.