Item Concept Trash Bin

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Irelia Bot

Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnesController View Post
Where would an upgrade to the Dorans items fit in your list? Because that's a horrible idea that deserves to be shot down.
I think that is so taboo that even the OP dare not mention it.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerabrete2 View Post
There are currently 4 gp10 items but people usually don't go for all of them. Usually they get 2-3. It was imba when you could stack them because you could get a lot of gp10 while getting the stats you need. The way it is now though the items are unrelated so you can only get more gp10 by getting different stats and some of the stats will be much less useful to you. Making good use of all 4 gp10 is nearly impossible. I think as long as this can be maintained there is no a problem with making more. This may be hard, but someone may have an idea how to do this.

-[reserved]
The problem with adding more GP10 items is that they've already got one GP10 for each niche; AD offense, AP offense, defense and sustain. Yeah, you're not likely to grab all 4 of them at once, but each of them still offers acceptable stats aside from the 5GP10.

It was really broken when people could stack the same GP10 item over and over, but at the same time, there really isn't a niche for a new GP10 item currently; now, upgrade paths to the current GP10s? That's a different story. I would love to see some new upgrades for Kage's Pick and Avarice Blade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnesController View Post
Where would an upgrade to the Dorans items fit in your list? Because that's a horrible idea that deserves to be shot down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaP616 View Post
I think that is so taboo that even the OP dare not mention it.
Or maybe the thought hadn't crossed my mind, because thankfully I haven't seen threads mentioning that lately. Thank you for catching that one, though.


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WonderBoy55

Senior Member

10-10-2012

My god, sticky this please.

Points to add:

2. Mana burn is also more effective on low mana champs and can render them useless quickly, while being relatively useless against champions with large mana pools.
2. Negative Stats (-50% AS for +150 AD, or -50 AD for + 200 AP), disinsentives like this are not necessary for any itemization. Allowing for a "dump stat" would make for a very bad worst-case scenario.
5. Not to mention that in higher tier items, Mana regen and HP Regen are not factored into item pricing, as they are early game stats. This is why Nashor's Tooth and Archangel's Staff are technically super cost efficient.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Requesting Sticky


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderBoy55 View Post
5. Not to mention that in higher tier items, Mana regen and HP Regen are not factored into item pricing, as they are early game stats. This is why Nashor's Tooth and Archangel's Staff are technically super cost efficient.
Just for the sake of debate, I'd like to point out that Chalice, Archangel's and Soul Shroud are all items that are considered late game mana sustain.

But really, those are the only ones; all the other items with mana/regen really don't put much gold into those stats, and thus really don't waste much gold like you said.


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JeeFour

Member

10-11-2012

Bump.


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Pitufito Dell

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Senior Member

10-11-2012

Tier 3 boots


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Thornmaelstrom

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Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitufito Dell View Post
Tier 3 boots
Seconded.
Can probably add GP10 boots as well, although I personally am rather fond of Gatsby's Loafers. Tiamats, however unviable they are, have a special place in the heart of summoners; likewise, adding more GP10 items would make those trolly games with Bankplank all the more enjoyable.


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ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

10-11-2012

I am a bit torn on the AD carry & CdR thing:

On the one hand, I realize and see why they are balanced around 0% CdR/why CdR is not available to them without a cost.

On the other hand, if CdR is tacked onto an offensive item (say, the regularily Bruta + Stinger idea), I don't really see which of their 4 offensive slots AD carries could trade for such an item:

Bloodthirster: If a hypothetical AD+CdR item is traded for this, the AD carry would lose the Lifesteal. An AD carry without lifesteal has certain problems when those Irelias, Olafs, Nocturnes, Shens etc look to make his hide their trophy.

Infinity Edge: Crit, both chance and damage, would be traded in for the hypothetical item. Not really a worthy trade, for AD carries are built around Crit being their most important scaling factor.

Phantom Dancer/Triforce: AD carry without movement speed and additional Crit to scale better. AD carry being slow as molasses = bad positioning = dead carry.

Last Whisper: Considering how easy Armor is to get in high quantities, Last Whisper remains a necessity in almost every case. The hypothetical item would need ridiculous amounts of flat ArPen to be always better.

EDIT: Also, Exdeadman, for the record/list: True damage on an item.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfDrDeath View Post
I am a bit torn on the AD carry & CdR thing:

On the one hand, I realize and see why they are balanced around 0% CdR/why CdR is not available to them without a cost.

On the other hand, if CdR is tacked onto an offensive item (say, the regularily Bruta + Stinger idea), I don't really see which of their 4 offensive slots AD carries could trade for such an item:

Bloodthirster: If a hypothetical AD+CdR item is traded for this, the AD carry would lose the Lifesteal. An AD carry without lifesteal has certain problems when those Irelias, Olafs, Nocturnes, Shens etc look to make his hide their trophy.

Infinity Edge: Crit, both chance and damage, would be traded in for the hypothetical item. Not really a worthy trade, for AD carries are built around Crit being their most important scaling factor.

Phantom Dancer/Triforce: AD carry without movement speed and additional Crit to scale better. AD carry being slow as molasses = bad positioning = dead carry.

Last Whisper: Considering how easy Armor is to get in high quantities, Last Whisper remains a necessity in almost every case. The hypothetical item would need ridiculous amounts of flat ArPen to be always better.
I can understand the argument you're going with; the current RADC build path is very much set in stone due to them being focused on dealing damage, and the fact that they currently have a selection of items that perfectly lay out as a template for 'best DPS evar' that really can't be mitigated outside of niche situations.

However, there are two major holes in that argument.
1. Niche situations still exist. Your champion may have something that somewhat mitigates the need for one of the core pieces of the RADC build (such as Draven not really needing Zeal/PD/Trinity Force due to Blood Rush), and can easily forgo that item for this (which, even going off just the minimum stats that Stinger+Brutalizer would give, would be an equivalent DPS increase for Draven, who is one of the few RADCs who can use Youmuu's very well).
2. Xypherous' amazing plans for Season 3 do include broadening the RADC build variety scope. Whether this includes rebalancing RADCs or not remains to be seen, but this does mean that the original, set in stone RADC build is going to be broken away from somewhat. Now, if it does include RADC rebalancing, that could definitely change this from a hole in the argument to a supporting argument itself; but until we know for sure...


And thanks to you, and everyone else who keeps contributing.


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