Initial Honor Results

First Riot Post
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Mr Serious Pants

Senior Member

10-09-2012

So, what did Tryndamere think when these initial numbers were tossed his way?


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Mbkweni

Junior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaverKing View Post
I love the new honour system. I get its mostly just another vector to measure player interaction but its already having a huge effect on in-game comportment. Now if something could be done about toxic players continuously making new accounts at low level and scaring off newbies...

Also:

How much money is Riot making?

I get that the month before MoP came out League had more users than WoW but...

--multimillion-dollar annual prize pools
--a staff explosion of like 1000% (or more) in 2 years
--New in-game tracking systems and statistical analysis provided by teams of PhD economists, statisticians, physicists(?), etc.
--multiple creative teams working on new Characters, maps (?) and game modes

...and who knows how big the army of imp(tern)s in the "custserv" department is by now...


...not only paid for but profitable despite the game being "free" to play.

...nowIsaywhat?
As a graduate student working towards a Ph.D. (although in a slightly different field), 6 Ph.D.'s are not that expensive to hire. We're talking $200,000-$400,000 per year for the lot of them. While the degree sounds impressive, the pay is going to be comparable to most other roles at Riot.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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10-09-2012
29 of 66 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kačl View Post
Doktor Lyte;

Out of curiosity, have you guys considered adding a small, rare token of honor on the forums, perhaps?

What I was thinking was changing the word "Member". It's something that is recognizable enough, that maybe after 30 honor in each category or something it would change from "Junior/Senior Member" to "Junior/Senior Exemplar".

Not only is it a really cool title, it would give a small appreciation and recognition on the forums to very positive players.
As far as I am concerned, anything is possible. We just have to make sure we thoroughly think through any new expansions to Honor and make sure the experiments have testable and meaningful hypotheses.


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Sire Steven

Junior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The hardest Honor to get right now is Helpful.
I mostly think this is because whenever someone tries to teach someone else about something in the game it comes off as smug and people get offended and think the other person is trying to insult their intelligence. While often this is the case, I know for a fact that sometimes I actually try and help someone understand what they may be misunderstanding, and I just get raged at or muted despite my efforts to sound sincere. I remember times when I wanted to try and explain to my support about why I would need to get the minion kills to play an ad carry effectively, and they think I am trying to be god or something and rage at me for acting so high and mighty. It goes the other way around, too. When I play support sometimes I try to explain to the ad carry that last hitting should be their concern in the early game since early fights are not as detrimental as a good farm. I know this is a bit specific, just giving my two cents.

TLDR; It's impossible to be helpful without sounding like a jerk.


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Darion Mograine

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blakdemon View Post
I mostly think this is because whenever someone tries to teach someone else about something in the game it comes off as smug and people get offended and think the other person is trying to insult their intelligence. While often this is the case, I know for a fact that sometimes I actually try and help someone understand what they may be misunderstanding, and I just get raged at or muted despite my efforts to sound sincere. I remember times when I wanted to try and explain to my support about why I would need to get the minion kills to play an ad carry effectively, and they think I am trying to be god or something and rage at me for acting so high and mighty. It goes the other way around, too. When I play support sometimes I try to explain to the ad carry that last hitting should be their concern in the early game since early fights are not as detrimental as a good farm. I know this is a bit specific, just giving my two cents.

TLDR; It's impossible to be helpful without sounding like a jerk.
No it's not. I've given people plenty of advice before without getting raged at. I just say something that makes me sound desperate and stupid, like... "Wow they have a lot of AP burst, maybe our tank should get [insert item here], not sure..." Or... "That WW is gonna jump on you a lot, maybe QSS to get out of it and we can counter initiate?"

Stuff like that usually works at least in my experience.


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CH3F Lee

Junior Member

10-09-2012

Best initiative so far in any online game, this is helping a lot.


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Sybil Cut

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darion Mograine View Post
I like the system a lot, but there are a couple things that I don't understand.

Honor "swapping" seems an unnecessary problem to address for a couple of reasons. First off, being punished by the tribunal resets your honor. Secondly, honor in itself doesn't add anything to your account other than some bells and whistles, which again, these people would lose because if they are bad for the community they will get reported. If they get their badges and like them enough, they will stop being "Toxic" in an attempt to keep them.

Getting honored by people on your friends list doesn't seem like a problem that should be addressed either. If I play well, win or lose, and still do my best to support the team, why should I be punished? When I lose I say GGWP and take the loss. When I win I say GGWP and move on from there. I don't mock players, I don't bash my teammates, I try my best to stop people from arguing, and yet if I consistently queue with one or two people who honor me... that's swapping? I don't queue with them because they honor me, I queue with them because I like playing with them.

The honor cap is also baffling to me. We're supposed to be giving out honor to players, yet I hit a cap and couldn't honor anymore. I played a bunch of matches with good players who were honorable opponents, or were just really friendly and didn't rage when I made mistakes. I'm being told not to honor these players, because I'll run out of honor to give. If you check my stats, you'll notice that I've given far more honor to people not on my friends list, then to people who were. The cap is kind of unnecessary considering yet again, if you are reported enough and punished, your honor is reset.

Just my thoughts on it currently. Still a great system though, and off to a wonderful start!
Well, I'm not Doktor Lyte, but I'll definitely provide some input into your statements.

As for the point about "Why is honor trading even addressed when honor provides very little of an upside to begin with?" The reason is in the name. It's not just a stat; it's supposed to be a representation of how honorable you are as a player. And for that reason, it's not acceptable. It's on principle. If we let people trade honor, it's no longer honorable; and that defeats the purpose. Also, the point about how people might start to like their badges and try not to be toxic really is a bad point. If people weren't punished for trading honor, what would be the positive for a player with a badge have over someone without? Someone punished by the Tribunal wouldn't worry about losing it because they could just trade more and get it back. You know?

The point about not being honored by people on your friend's list; the point being is that often times, you're biased towards your friends and more likely to give them honor. If you're good enough in-game that you can make a great impression on a player that you've never met before, it should really mean something; and it does. More than it does if you've played with them in the past.

The idea of an honor cap is because, by definition, not every player that one meets will be honorable. It falls within a bell curve, and if someone is giving everyone in the centre of the curve honor, it means they're being quite lenient with who they're giving honor to. Do you know what I mean here?

Anyways, I hope that clears it up. Maybe Lyte can elabourate a little better than what I can, but the points are there.


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MowiOwi

Junior Member

10-09-2012

I may seem a bit upset, but today I have lost ALL of my games because of trolls, intentional feeders, or people who go afk. And my games have all been full of toxic players. You say these issues are down, but so far I have not noticed a single difference. In fact, my games seem to have gotten worse since honor came out. Really, I have been stuck with at least one person you would consider toxic in each game, Lyte. Saying toxic player is being polite, by the way. Tonight I even had a player state in game that he troll picked.

People are always telling me that at level 30 things change, but from what pre-level 30 games are showing me it will be more of the same or worse. Even if I am good enough to get up to a level where there are non toxic players I won't get there because the toxic players, trolls, feeders, and afks will make sure that I stay in this same place. The biggest problem is that some of these 4v5 games we can win, except for the fact that my teammates generally start to rage at each other and won't listen to reason.

I took a break from League until the honor system came out, hoping that it would change things. It sure did, so far most of my games have been much, much worse.

What I am wondering is if this connected to the honor system or if it is a problem with the matchmaking system. Either way, something has failed utterly. I mean, these past couple of days have paired me up with some amazing teams, and not in a good way.


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Lord Janas

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

Doesn't stop dicks from getting you to promise to give them honor to stop them trolling. I had a guy in a ranked game who want to play Lee Sin adc. Finally he locked in Ezreal but the whole time he kept trolling . Each time he died he'd give up and go "That's it I'm building tank" and then built tank items on Ezreal until he realised that what the rest of us were saying the entire game was true: we could win this.

Stupidly, the only thing that stopped him playing like a complete nob ("Can I have a leash?" "No.") was the fact that we told him we'd all give him honor if we won.

At least now I have a bargaining tool for these sorts of people.


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SalvanasOne

Junior Member

10-09-2012

Firstly, bravo on Riot, I'm really enjoying this initiative, I think I've been seeing the effects in-game and it's great. Now, just some of my thoughts on the feedback thus far:

Don't know why people are so worried about Honoring their friends and such. As I read Lyte's post, it's not a bannable offence, it just means those particular Honor points aren't valued as highly as if you were Honoring a non-regular player. Just don't overdo it (more below)

"But that means that I won't get the rewards!" ... well, yes, likely. But the point of the Honor system wasn't to reward players, it was to give the community an incentive to BE NICE. Now if you regularly only play with your premade team, and you all (hopefully) get along, well, great, you already have the benefit of people being NICE even without the system! And if you never play with others, then the Crest to identify you as Honorable makes no difference, since your friends will already know that (hopefully).
The probelms it seems to have addressed quite brilliantly so far, is in the random games like I play,where you takes yer chances. On the whole, the level of flaming and raging does seem to have decreased imho, which is a good thing.

"But I might get banned if they even think I'm trading Honor!" ... I don't think you would, but if you're worried, make sure you give Honor for what it's really worth then, not just for "Hey GG, we won." And if you ARE trading honor, you're (a) not gonna be honorable in game, and therefore (b) likely gonna be reported by the other team anyway, and then it's a Tribunal matter.

"But if someone's doing wrong, they need to know! And if I tell them, they won't Honor me!" ... iNCORRECT. They might if you do it the right way.
The wrong way would be: "WTF, WHY U DO THAT YOU **** GO UNINSTALL NOW!"
Instead: "Hey, that was bad cos <insert reason here>, don't do it again, next time do <alternative>" works so much better.
Case in point, I had a first-time Yi on our team, he said so, and we were like OK... and you could tell. He started feeding (unintentional), didn't know how to use the skills, and basically lost us the game. I told him what he did wrong, and said that maybe he should get some bot/custom games with Yi first before going Normal. He agreed, and so he got a Friendly, and gave me a Helpful (really-hard-to-get!) Honor to boot. ... "But what if he doesn't agree and gets angry?" I heard you ask... well, then that's what the Report system is for. Unskilled/Negative/Refusal-to-Communicate, take your pick.

All in all, two thumbs up from me. =)