About the DFG nerf and Veigar

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Cyning

Senior Member

10-18-2012

As a person who mains Veigar, I'm just slightly worried that the DFG nerf will hurt Veigar's already mediocre early game, cripple his mid game, and damage his viability in general. It's his core item and he relies on the base damage from it to take out mids who rush Catalyst to dilute his burst.

To compensate, can we get a buff to Veigar to prevent his early game from being wrecked like Nasus'? I mean, Veigar's infinite scaling isn't as much of an issue as Nasus' since it doesn't make him a better tower destroyer and it really still only allows him to burst down two squishy people at once.

I mean come on guys, nerfing an item that a tier two mid relies on so heavily is just plain mean.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Am I the only person in the world who thinks a champion who has 100% intentions to 100-0 combo you during a near unavoidable stun is a bad champion design?


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Senpai Lamppost

Senior Member

10-18-2012

all about deathcap now
honestly deathcap veigar seems more useful to a team than pre nerf dfg veigar


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Cyning

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
Am I the only person in the world who thinks a champion who has 100% intentions to 100-0 combo you during a near unavoidable stun is a bad champion design?
You're a plat ELO and you've never heard of buying a quicksilver sash? The ****?

And it's not really a bad champion design. He's designed as the quintessential anti-mage and anti-squishy. He barely harms tanks, especially late game when they have MR, and rushing MR against Veigar early game shuts him down nearly entirely.


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PVRSE

Senior Member

10-18-2012

the nerf flat out sucks for all champs who rely on this item. theres nothing more to say. I wont be playing those champs anymore


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Cyning

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunethug View Post
the nerf flat out sucks for all champs who rely on this item. theres nothing more to say. I wont be playing those champs anymore
This is honestly why I don't like it when Riot nerfs items. It's really just a blanket nerf to cover up the real problem. i.e. Eve's ult's ratios.

Lower her ratios, keep DFG where it is. Problem solved. She'll still be viable, but not nearly as lethal.


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Pyr

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Veigar can still 0 to death people without it just fine in mid game. (see AD carry and support) He's a late game champion for a reason. If your goal is to destroy people early, you're playing him wrong. Hell, I might go as far as to say that for his mid-game as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardamominal View Post
This is honestly why I don't like it when Riot nerfs items. It's really just a blanket nerf to cover up the real problem. i.e. Eve's ult's ratios.

Lower her ratios, keep DFG where it is. Problem solved. She'll still be viable, but not nearly as lethal.
Eve is not the reason DFG was nerfed. DFG was the reason DFG was nerfed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunethug View Post
the nerf flat out sucks for all champs who rely on this item. theres nothing more to say. I wont be playing those champs anymore
Yes you will. You will because you did before the DFG movement came to pass.


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Cyning

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyk View Post
Veigar can still 0 to death people without it just fine in mid game. (see AD carry and support) He's a late game champion for a reason. If your goal is to destroy people early, you're playing him wrong. Hell, I might go as far as to say that for his mid-game as well.
I find it funny when people think that APs have a true late game. APs dominate mid game and early game. It's how MOBAs work game mechanics-wise. Their high base damage allows them to stomp other classes and their ratios only really slightly band-aid the fact that their late game scaling is poor due to health and magic resist both countering their damage, unlike AD where armor is the only real counter via Madreds, Hextech Shrapnel Shells, Silver Bolts, etc.

So let me reiterate this there is no such thing as a late game AP champion. It's a myth. The only reason APs can carry a game to victory is because they get the enemy underfed to the point where they cannot make it to late game.

Play a few DotA matches with Lena, Nyx Assassin, and Zeus to get my point.


Quote:
Eve is not the reason DFG was nerfed. DFG was the reason DFG was nerfed.
You're kidding, right? The item was perfectly fine and not even complained about until Evelynn came around with her ult's incredibly high base damage and ratio. Had agony's embrace not been added to her, DFG would still be fine. Riot is just concerned about its and her base damage being used in tandem, so instead of nerfing Eve to where she should be, they're nerfing deathfire grasp because they don't want to fix the actual problem.

Quote:
Yes you will. You will because you did before the DFG movement came to pass.
You are aware that the DFG movement came due to the fact that Season 1 was dominated by bruisers, right? On top of that, since then the mobility creep and power creep have continued making champions which are more difficult to counter without bursting them down to zero before they can escape. Plus, since then the game has gotten even more mobility and tank situated such that if you don't have DFG, you will fail. Look at the latest releases to the league. Hell, look at all the releases since Mordekaiser.

If anything, they've just opened the gateway to the Tanky DPS meta returning to summoner's rift, which is a huge can of worms they should not have opened again.


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Pyr

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Before I refute your points, I'd like to point out that you are unranked. Not only this, you are 873 Elo in solo. So, this is an effort in futility because you are well under the average LoL player. Source: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/22965696

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardamominal View Post
I find it funny when people think that APs have a true late game. APs dominate mid game and early game. It's how MOBAs work game mechanics-wise. Their high base damage allows them to stomp other classes and their ratios only really slightly band-aid the fact that their late game scaling is poor due to health and magic resist both countering their damage, unlike AD where armor is the only real counter via Madreds, Hextech Shrapnel Shells, Silver Bolts, etc.

So let me reiterate this there is no such thing as a late game AP champion. It's a myth. The only reason APs can carry a game to victory is because they get the enemy underfed to the point where they cannot make it to late game.

Play a few DotA matches with Lena, Nyx Assassin, and Zeus to get my point.
Karthus. He is a late game AP Carry. Ryze is a magic damage carry that excels in late game. Vlad is a late game powerhouse. I just named 3. Your move.

And I don't have to play those games, because they are not this game.

Quote:



You're kidding, right? The item was perfectly fine and not even complained about until Evelynn came around with her ult's incredibly high base damage and ratio. Had agony's embrace not been added to her, DFG would still be fine. Riot is just concerned about its and her base damage being used in tandem, so instead of nerfing Eve to where she should be, they're nerfing deathfire grasp because they don't want to fix the actual problem.

If anything, they've just opened the gateway to the Tanky DPS meta returning to summoner's rift, which is a huge can of worms they should not have opened again.
If you'd of watched the world finals, you'd of seen a DFG in nearly every game. Wanna know why?

30% base damage + 4% per 100 AP. Any mage that didn't build it (in the finals and in general), ESPECIALLY in the GP5 metagame we currently have, found that they didn't do nearly as well.

Quote:
You are aware that the DFG movement came due to the fact that Season 1 was dominated by bruisers, right? On top of that, since then the mobility creep and power creep have continued making champions which are more difficult to counter without bursting them down to zero before they can escape. Plus, since then the game has gotten even more mobility and tank situated such that if you don't have DFG, you will fail. Look at the latest releases to the league. Hell, look at all the releases since Mordekaiser.

If anything, they've just opened the gateway to the Tanky DPS meta returning to summoner's rift, which is a huge can of worms they should not have opened again.
No. It came about when the GP5 metagame took over, since Kage's is the first GP5 mages usually build and DFG is the only useful thing that builds out of it.


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Thundarianjunk

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
Am I the only person in the world who thinks a champion who has 100% intentions to 100-0 combo you during a near unavoidable stun is a bad champion design?
Haha yeah... one of my fave ap mids, but I'm very surprised they haven't taken the time to fix this yet.