Is playing as Jax in Dom a moral issue?

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GrignardTS

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawNuff View Post
I know Jax's CDs, but your numbers assume that he attacks exactly as often as his attackspeed says,blah blah blah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbruiser View Post
this post is so bad/flawed its not even funny
Look, both of you who said 'this math is bad' are just wrong. Because the math isn't bad, it's right. I correctly openly state major assumptions I make and don't hide them.

The math isn't bad because I haven't made any errors. I made assumptions to perform the calculations in 20m rather than 1hr. It's up to us to interpret what the math says. So, in no way is this 'bad'.

I stated what the math tells us. "Jax has carry level damage". And he does. You cannot deny that. You are thinking too much about play situations, how you'll react, ways to counter, etc.

None of this has to do or attempts to dispute the point that Jax has carry level damage. He is a hyper carry. And Dominion is the fuel that drives him to get to that hyper carry status each and every game.

And the issues of his build are irrelevant. Because if this build is sub-optimal than it only furthers my point.

You want more accurate math? Do it yourself. And while you're panning Excel for proper calculations for a while, I'll be in game.


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Phourc

Senior Member

10-09-2012

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Originally Posted by Emeraldw View Post
You'll have to explain how they do then. Because Kiting Jax can be very difficult and I know they cannot out-duel him.
He's not, really - anything with a slow and a disengage, or a long range slow can make his life hell: He's got a gap closer, sure but it's also his escape and also on a decently long cd.

Make him fight a brand, teemo or nunu (the kitiest mutha****ers I can think of off the top of my head) and he'll be lucky to close with them more than once.

I met HaIfhearted once in draft dom, it was brutal. I jumped on him, got stunned for my trouble, now he's leaving and I have that dot which applies Rylai's slow with EVERY tick, I never got in range again as he kited me around his tower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrignardTS View Post
I still like gunblade and rageblade though. Rageblade synergizes perfectly with his kit. Replace Rylai's with GB and add Ludicity would probably increase his DPS by 200/300 more. Adding Zerker on Graves may give him 150 more dps.
Rageblade synergizes with the WORST part of his kit though - the free aspd is nice but rarely will you be able to stand on top of someone going Derp... Derp. Derp. Derp Derp DerpDerpDerpDerpDerp! (Cause that's the sound it makes in my head).

Gunblade got it's AD and lifesteal slashed pretty hard, now it's only good if you mostly want the AP/Vamp with a slow proc - at least from a cost/effectiveness standpoint.

Anyway, just had to reply to silly things that bug me!


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ShawNuff

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Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrignardTS View Post
Look, both of you who said 'this math is bad' are just wrong. Because the math isn't bad, it's right. I correctly openly state major assumptions I make and don't hide them.

The math isn't bad because I haven't made any errors. I made assumptions to perform the calculations in 20m rather than 1hr. It's up to us to interpret what the math says. So, in no way is this 'bad'.

I stated what the math tells us. "Jax has carry level damage". And he does. You cannot deny that. You are thinking too much about play situations, how you'll react, ways to counter, etc.

None of this has to do or attempts to dispute the point that Jax has carry level damage. He is a hyper carry. And Dominion is the fuel that drives him to get to that hyper carry status each and every game.

And the issues of his build are irrelevant. Because if this build is sub-optimal than it only furthers my point.

You want more accurate math? Do it yourself. And while you're panning Excel for proper calculations for a while, I'll be in game.
Every melee carry/tanky DPS does "carry damage" (Glass Tiger Udyr, Master Yi, GlassMundo, DPS Eve, Fiora, Jayce, Glass Sin,) but often lack the ability to actually use it. In practice, you actually need a carry. Jax is not "the Hypercarry of LoL" nor "the best duelist in the game". He is a tanky DPS that generally beats other tanky DPS and tanks, and is in need of balance changes, but I think people look at kits of tanky DPS and go "thats so op" without realizing the inherent disadvantages they have to overcome.

And by the way, you very rarely get to the 6 item lategame where hyper carries rule.

I am not going to run a number crunch. I've seen it in action enough to know what I'm talking about.


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Koravel

Senior Member

10-09-2012

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Originally Posted by Emeraldw View Post
People supposedly are suggesting counters and I do not see one.

Malphite/nunu? haha, no. They can't out-push jax, they can't win duels against jax and jax will get sustain to survive harass.

Jax is straight up broken in Dominion. He doesn't have counters to him bot lane, especially as the game goes on. He excels in skirmishes and duels, which is mainly what Dominion is.

There are other good champions in dominion, but they are good for different reasons.
Jayce will rock a Jax bot lane. So will a good Ryze, Yorick, Nunu, yes a Nunu, Malphite, Maokai, and those are all just off the top of my head.


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NamKim

Senior Member

10-09-2012

There is no denying that Jax is a very powerful champion in Dominion. Heck, even on SR, he is a very powerful champion. But I highly doubt that he is on the level of "Super OP, gg."

Personally, I fear facing Jayce, Yorick, and Kass far more than Jax. Listen, I enjoy playing Jax a lot, if he is as overpowered as you guys are saying, I should be winning a lot more of my games. Superior coordination, skill, counter build, and CC will beat almost any team with a Jax.

Edit: Although, I got kind of tired of playing with Jax. Wukong is so much more fun since he is my favorite champion.


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Koravel

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
There is no denying that Jax is a very powerful champion in Dominion. Heck, even on SR, he is a very powerful champion. But I highly doubt that he is on the level of "Super OP, gg."

Personally, I fear facing Jayce, Yorick, and Kass far more than Jax. Listen, I enjoy playing Jax a lot, if he is as overpowered as you guys are saying, I should be winning a lot more of my games. Superior coordination, skill, counter build, and CC will beat almost any team with a Jax.

Edit: Although, I got kind of tired of playing with Jax. Wukong is so much more fun since he is my favorite champion.
There are currently three "cheesecake tier" champions.

Those are Jayce, Lulu, and Kassadin, in no particular order. Jax is hard to deal with, but he is not nearly as OP as those three.


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NamKim

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koravel34 View Post
There are currently three "cheesecake tier" champions.

Those are Jayce, Lulu, and Kassadin, in no particular order. Jax is hard to deal with, but he is not nearly as OP as those three.
If you go by Sauron's guide, there are several more. Although, people at my elo is relatively unfamiliar with DD/Sauron, so they avoid those champions thinking they are "unviable" in Dominion. Such as for my friends (SR mains), Lulu is an unviable pick while Tryn is one of the most powerful champions in Dominion. Tier lists at lower elos is different compared to high elo since a lot of us lack the ability/knowledge to counter champions.

I played a lot of Jax, and I agree with you. Jax is hard to deal with, but when you play him enough, you understand how he works enough to counter him.

The closest I got to Lulu was getting QSS. Jayce and Kassadin...working on it...

But instead of complaining about it, I go on the DominateDominion chat and ask people for counters/advice. Excluding the cheesecake tier/some tier 1 champions, counters to some champions are very obvious to these people. DD chat, great resources, take advantage of it. Or do what I do, wait until Nekrogen streams and tell him I love him <3


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RockJockey

Senior Member

10-10-2012

You know which champion beats everyone?

Singed.

Doesn't matter how you build him.
He will chase you into your fountain for the kill, spam laugh, then run away with 100 health and then poison-kill your 4 other teammates who were silly enough to chase him.

I'd be flinging jJx all over the map, ain't much he's gonna do to stop me.


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Mind If I Watch

Junior Member

10-10-2012

Ive shut down jax a few times on bot playing an ad teemo, with his blind to block basic hits early game,as well as move quick to escape the stun after the jump late game, then turning around on him with distance when he decides its not worth it, and cant get away due to frozen mallet.

Build:

1 Berserker greaves
2 Infinity Edge
3 Bloodthirster
4 Frozen Mallet
5 Phantom Dancer
6 (situational)

While having full AS rune page at 38%(i find % runes to be the most advantageous for the whole game especially late game)

keep shrooming bushes and gank points and u should be fine granted you are paying attention


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Panwar

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJockey View Post
You know which champion beats everyone?

Singed.

Doesn't matter how you build him.
He will chase you into your fountain for the kill, spam laugh, then run away with 100 health and then poison-kill your 4 other teammates who were silly enough to chase him.

I'd be flinging jJx all over the map, ain't much he's gonna do to stop me.
WW will run just as fast as Singed while chasing him, AAing and Qing him in the back, the whole while drinking his poison like it's mana from heaven.