How to not win at League of Legends: Soraka

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tempnameA461

Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by XReyoX View Post
The major flaw with soraka is that she wins the lane by attrition. Trade some, heal up then trade some more until the enemy needs to back which allows your ADC to farm and level better. It is tiring and annoying.
I wasn't aware that the only way to play Unicorn was as a 0 cs Support at bottom lane.


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March of Dimes

Senior Member

10-09-2012

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Originally Posted by And it was K View Post
Your role as a support is not to sit there and spam a heal. You need to have a large presence in lane, and you need to stay relevant later the game. A good support can either act as a kill lane, to completely crush the opposing lane, like Taric, Leona, Jarvan, Fiddle, Blitzcrank, or can harass the poor enemy out of lane, like Sona or Lulu. Then you have the bad supports that can only tie at best lane by babysitting: Most Soraka and Janna players. The other supports can babysit while doing everything else.

You can't force objectives if you're tying a lane. You can't build up that much of an advantage at all if your goal is to tie the lane. You won't get a dragon if you can't create an opening.

Later in the game you need to bring utility to a team, and, this is especially true in solo queue since everyone else is going to want to be on the offensive, you need to protect the AD carry. This doesn't even need explanation. Look at how Janna can protect an ADC and control a fight to make up for her babysitting lane. Lulu. Leona. Alistar. Blitzcrank's game winning grabs.

Now look at Soraka. Hurr 100 armor for 3 seconds. That's not going to stop Irelia from bashing the ADC's face in. Taric is weak in this department too, but he's also one of the best kill lanes around, and provides team wide armor and an offensive aura.
Wait, so you're saying Janna and Soraka are both terrible supports because their kits don't allow them aggression in lane? Then why were these the 2 dominant supports for a large part of season 2? (hint: "nerfs" they received had nothing to do w/ lane aggression)

Also, if you're sitting in lane spamming heals as Soraka, you're not playing her well. I'm sorry, but when you have a short cooldown AOE damage spell on support (no one else does), you should probably use it in engagements. "Hurr 3 seconds"? Well, if you can time things well, 3 seconds is a large portion of an engagement. If you wait until your carry is trading instead of spamming on cooldown, that armor buff is actually pretty useful (not to mention her passive's MR buff). Also, having unlimited mana in lane is pretty strong. Again, the idea with Soraka isn't that you need to all-in the enemy to win lane (and, yes, Soraka CAN win her lane). It's that you force small trades because Soraka's sustain lets you win these trades.

Lategame admittedly isn't Soraka's high point, but she'll probably do much better there than Jarvan and Fiddle (at least she's not a free kill). If Jarvan and Fiddle are somehow building their carry items from the support role, they're not buying wards, which is something the team should be exploiting before you get to lategame.

If you guys want to get Soraka buffed, that's fine by me, but don't go spouting foolishness on the levels of calling the archetypal support the worst support champ in the game.


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Enjuine

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhattayaBrian View Post
105 Armor

105 Armor

105 ARMOR

(Among other things.)
Achievement Unlocked: Red posted in one of my threads. Rickless linked to one of mine before but never got a post until now. Anyway, yes, 105 armor is nice, but its 3 seconds, and on an enormous cooldown, and everyone knows this, meaning you will get bullied hard between W's. Taric gives 30 armor all the time, averaging out to more armor/time, and of course the first 30 armor counts for more, as armor has diminishing returns from an actual damage reduced standpoint.

But really though, I realize this - it doesn't make my earlier points incorrect. She nullifies the ability of both sides to make kills - when you aren't going to die, both sides freefarm. A draw in terms of CS/Kills is great if you win lategame, but..she is awful late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verandriel View Post
You lost all credibility when you cited that as correct supporting. The only reason he didn't feed first blood was because Corki screwed up his autoattack after his flash (if you watch closely, Corki auto'd a minion after flashing; if he auto'd Aphromoo, Aphromoo would've been dead and then it would've been 2v1.

That said, I think Soraka's still really strong late game. She doesn't really have peel, but having 2 heals and good sustain makes her very good for those late game dances around objectives. Also, Soraka doesn't become useless when her team is significantly behind. When Leona's team is significantly behind, however, she can't initiate without getting blown up, and if she tries to protect her carry then the enemy team will just blow up the rest of her team.

Though you're trying to compare a sustain support whose role is to make the lane more safe, have global presence post-6, and sustain her team in drawn-out objective dances to an aggressive support whose role is to stun-lock an enemy, have really strong lane pressence post-6, and initiate or peel for her team. Apples to oranges.
The Corki messed up, but he wasn't in range of Leona and a shot on Ez wouldn't have made any difference. Even if it had been 2 for 1, it would still be a great trade, especially considering Leona/Ez is better than Taric/Corki late. Even if they had both died for nothing, he was still "supporting correctly." What Ez/Taric/Corki did right/wrong has no bearing on whether or not Leona did her job right.

Yes, it sucks to be a support when your team is behind. It's really bad for Leona. It's just as bad for Soraka though. Enhancing teammates who don't do anything doesn't count for much, and frankly, Soraka is easier to kill. Both are essentially looking to pick up kills from towerdives through tower DPS, but they can back off from Raka if they realize the buffs are too much. Leona will keep them there. You can at least capitalize on their mistakes.

Apples to Orangles? Sort of. A support with abilities that protect a carry vs a support with abilities that rely on the carry to tank. Yes, Soraka makes the lane more safe but it doesnt matter because "safety" isn't really a desirable goal in LoL. A horrendous slaughter is fine as long as it is even. The better lategame wins as long as this is true, but with Soraka - You can't win early. You lose late.

There are plenty of people citing her harass as good and that is sort of true, but Soraka's range is really low - if she is harassing, a Kill-Lane support can just grab her and kill her. Winning because you outharassed and sustained the enemy just means they were bad, and didn't know how to take advantage of opportunities. Raka can only protect 1 person. She either dies horribly protecting her AD, or lets them die...or stands behind them, protecting through buffs, and stalling the lane.


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Enjuine

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by March of Dimes View Post
Wait, so you're saying Janna and Soraka are both terrible supports because their kits don't allow them aggression in lane? Then why were these the 2 dominant supports for a large part of season 2? (hint: "nerfs" they received had nothing to do w/ lane aggression)

Also, if you're sitting in lane spamming heals as Soraka, you're not playing her well. I'm sorry, but when you have a short cooldown AOE damage spell on support (no one else does), you should probably use it in engagements. "Hurr 3 seconds"? Well, if you can time things well, 3 seconds is a large portion of an engagement. If you wait until your carry is trading instead of spamming on cooldown, that armor buff is actually pretty useful (not to mention her passive's MR buff). Also, having unlimited mana in lane is pretty strong. Again, the idea with Soraka isn't that you need to all-in the enemy to win lane (and, yes, Soraka CAN win her lane). It's that you force small trades because Soraka's sustain lets you win these trades.

Lategame admittedly isn't Soraka's high point, but she'll probably do much better there than Jarvan and Fiddle (at least she's not a free kill). If Jarvan and Fiddle are somehow building their carry items from the support role, they're not buying wards, which is something the team should be exploiting before you get to lategame.

If you guys want to get Soraka buffed, that's fine by me, but don't go spouting foolishness on the levels of calling the archetypal support the worst support champ in the game.
First of all, Janna does allow aggression - not like Leo/Taric/Blitz/Ali/Renekton but it can be done, at least a little. She can at least hold someone in place if her AD is winning. However, that's fine because Janna is actually really good late. If she can create a stalemate in lane, that's a win for her, unlike Soraka. But really, the reason they were popular is because of meta and playstyle at the time. If people had been playing then like they do now, Raka/Janna would have fallen out of popularity a lot faster.

If the opponents are stupid enough to wait until your W is up for every fight, then yes, you will probably win just as easily as you could have with any other support. Good opponents will kill/zone you out between W's.

See, you are assuming Jarvan and Fiddle support are going to be playing just like Bruiser/AP. They can, if they get massively fed, but if they don't, its ok, because they can peel better than most supports late anyway. You don't buy "carry items" as a support unless you have so much gold that you can get them, support items, and wards without trouble. A support fiddle can sit with his AD in fights and drop CC just like a normal support would. Jarvan can do the same.

Soraka is the archetypical support champ only because we associate a "support" class as doing things like healing and providing buffs. This isn't an MMO. It isn't balanced like an MMO and "supporting" in LoL is done far better by preventing damage in the first place than healing or mitigating it. Those same tools can also be turned offensively if the opportunity arises.


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ashxu

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

105 armor will negate AD damage but that won't do you any good if someone like Lee Sin or Mundo is already up in your face with perma slows. Soraka has no peel and later game where 2-3 Ignites is really common, her sustain is sorta bad. The only thing going for her is her team heal and silence.

imo her heal needs some sort of proper attention. It's just a ugly mess right now.


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YoungBlade

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

I have always disliked supporting as Soraka and have always felt she was pretty weak compared to other supports. This is the first time I've seen a Plat player say that she's not good. I've always just assumed I suck at playing her...

You mirror my observations. I've seen Soraka as a niche pick to counter some selective champions at select times (like Karthus' early-game ults or Taric's armor reduction and harass). And I agree, she feels useless come lategame.

Overall, I like the others supports better. Taric, Ali, Lulu, Janna, even... Sona...

Oh, the facerolling... *shiver*


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SuperSobotka

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhattayaBrian View Post
105 Armor

105 Armor

105 ARMOR

(Among other things.)
yeah you almost nerfed this in half.


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Slippery Fat Man

Senior Member

10-09-2012

bump


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Peacemaker9669

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Junior Member

10-09-2012

The point of Soraka heal is to heal at the right moments, thus making the target of focus harder to kill. Also, Soraka provides a flat MR buff as a passive, so she is providing some protection against magic damage dealers. Also, the silence can shut down mages for a given amount of time for a fight if used correctly. Just because she has no hard CC doesn't mean she can't protect the AD carry.
In my opinion, Soraka is baby's first support and is easy to pick up but hard to master. Her early game is actually quite weak whileas her late game is quite strong in teamfights. I mean, free MR buff and anti-karthus ulti while lowering the other team's MR? I'm fine with that. Do I need to mention that Soraka can also easily bait people with her heals? Having more/better CC doesn't necessarily make you a better support character. Yes, it gives you a stronger presence in lane, but like Aphromoo says, you have to create a zone for your AD carry to farm. That Taric also was playing passive and Aphromoo noticed this and took advantage of it. It's not because Leona is a better support character than Taric. I can still create a zone of freefarm as Soraka against a Leona easily by having good ward placement and being aggressive when the time is right. Just because you pick Soraka doesn't mean you automatically have to play passive. When you support as Soraka, your goal is to make small engagements and then make them lose more in that engagement as you recover your losses.


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ogel

Senior Member

10-09-2012

reading these posts just hurts, please stop saying she's bad just cus you don't know how to play her!

defensive/passive lane only? lol

use a better build and bait your opposition to cc you so your adc has free reign to attack them or just sit in bush silencing their support, it's really easy.

l2p before you berate a character you obviously don't understand and stop focusing on her heal! a 2.5 sec silence is soooo strong