Just got to Plat playing ONLY SHACO AMA

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EbonyJim

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by totaldominasian View Post
You keep mentioning 1 box at either wolves or wraiths at 1:47ish... then 3 boxes at buffs. I'm confused. Wolves/wraiths spawn at 1:40 while buffs spawn at 1:55. Do you just slowly keep placing boxes in brush, then aggroing the buffs into the boxed brush? Seems... slow.

He meant at 0:47. This allows him to drop a box in the river bush around 0:30 to alert him of any invades. After dropping a box in wolves/wraiths, put three at the buff camp of choice. You may need a little help killing wolves/wraiths from your mid. Save smite for your second jungle buff imo.


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MauJustice

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by totaldominasian View Post
You keep mentioning 1 box at either wolves or wraiths at 1:47ish... then 3 boxes at buffs. I'm confused. Wolves/wraiths spawn at 1:40 while buffs spawn at 1:55. Do you just slowly keep placing boxes in brush, then aggroing the buffs into the boxed brush? Seems... slow.
I think he is counting the 1 minute lifespan into the timer.

1 Box in the river entrance at 0:30, 1 at wraiths 0:47, then put 3 at Red


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JuanDeages

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Dude's not kidding.

42-16 with literally just Shaco in Solo/Duo

Question: What build(s) do you typically use? What adaptations do you make based on:

1. Opponent team comp
2. Allied team comp
3. Good/bad start

Do you only jungle?
Phreak has evolved to shoutcaster.

Also, OP, how do you deal with tanky teams?


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MauJustice

Senior Member

10-09-2012

So you mentioned how you alert yourself, but how do you typically handle invades?

Do you transition Blue -> Their red, or do you go straight for their red?


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Shac├┤ Bot

Senior Member

10-09-2012

I have a question on the on-hit build that I use.

Wits End, Madreds, Sunfire (think of it as an extra 40 dps without having to auto, good as another wits end for me), Wrigs -> BT (you need sustain), Mobs and GA.

This makes any tanky dps you're against look like a joke and if their adc isn't super fed you'll cut through them without dying too fast.

Most importantly the build is actually pretty cheap on start up, since once you get wits end you become strong enough to fight and it only gets better from there. Also hyper speed baron/dragons.


Get back to me with your opinions.


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MadKingThorn

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EffortlessAction View Post
Let's talk about your play-style. When you go to gank a lane, do you do a lot of lane ganks? Q into the brush and gank from behind? Or do you try to save Q for someone who may get away? Do you E right as you gank, or save it for a ranged slow? Do you Q in and throw a box down? When do you use boxes? How do you place them to make the most out of them? What is your skill order in the jungle?


Also, again, I play the tankyer champions in the jungle, ones who should be giving kills, not taking them. Is Shaco different, in that he wants kills just as much as the lane?
Most of my lane ganks don't even involve the brush (that stupid annoying orange cloud is such a dead give away when used too closely). I will use deceive near the bot/top turret as long as the enemy minions are just out of range to see me and with boots of mobility I can get to the enemy right as my stealth fades. Its reallllllllllllllllllly effective on a pushed enemy :P. Likewise, depending on the blue/purple team there is a cliff you can jump down to river or jump over to your tower side. You can use this as a great vantage point to Q over and catch enemies off guard as they won't see you with wards (unless they ward that tribush near your tower).

I 100% always use Q to initiate the fight [and if the chase is long enough to finish it] and I save E for after they flash or if they are getting away from my lane partner. Boxes should be used to cut off certain areas during a gank and are only properly used when you have enough stealth time to get about 2 inches away from the enemy (in their path to retreat) and placing the box there. For instance I gank, I get 2 inches away from the enemy TOWARDS his/her tower (likely retreat point) place the box far enough so it will trigger if they run past it then flank them from behind (since I just appeared). It is hard to pull off since the easiest gank paths are normally warded heavily. Additionally, boxes late game i use to either give vision of an area [i.e a baron] or as a safety mechanism for my AD Carry when a bruiser jumps on them. I give my kills away (as best I can) without letting them get away. If the AD carry or AP carry or top solo can go 3-0 relatively quickly, they should be progressing the game very quickly (ontop of a hopeful dragon or 2).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizoiador View Post
I would like to know how you behave in teamfights where the enemy have oracles on their tank/bruiser (or any champ hard to kill). Whenever I play Shaco and they have oracles, I jump in, do some damage, and die almost instantly 2 seconds thereafter. Thanks a lot and congratulations for your achievement!
Try and avoid going near the oracles holder when you Q in (sneak around behind their team through the jungle or river while your 4 team mates keep them occupied) then just pop in front of their backline and watch their team retreat on you HARD. Throw up your clone and a box, and deceive should be up soon there after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nave222 View Post
My main issue when playing as shaco is that I feel like i fall off way too hard in late game and as a result do not contribute much damage to the team

how can I resolve this problem?

I also feel uber squish, maybe thats just how he is, as i am not used to him yet

advice?
When I first started to play him I had this same feeling, I was too squishy and didn't do enough damage or nearly as much as I thought I could. I just learned to pick and choose the right fights and stick to their softest champions. Late game you can do about 50% of a carries health with a Q + E Combo with whatever offensive item build you have. Which means if either your AP carry or AD carry can sneak some damage in there you can chunk the AD carry down fast. Try to snowball your early game and then you will be a strong presence late game (and your teammates should be super more fed too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by supahbeast View Post
what if shaco got picked or banned?
I dodged

Quote:
Originally Posted by totaldominasian View Post
You keep mentioning 1 box at either wolves or wraiths at 1:47ish... then 3 boxes at buffs. I'm confused. Wolves/wraiths spawn at 1:40 while buffs spawn at 1:55. Do you just slowly keep placing boxes in brush, then aggroing the buffs into the boxed brush? Seems... slow.
As others mentioned my mistake. 1 box to cover your arse at :30 seconds 1 at wolves/wraiths :47~ 3 at red (last box can be placed at about 1:38~) which gives you a second or two to run back to the original camp. Sorry about that :X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of God2 View Post
So it looks like we generally build shaco the same way, however I do something different.

Before building into trinity force meaning boots of mobility and wriggles I get a brutilizer for CD and the early game armor pen. Would you say this is bad? Should I just not get it and continue toward Trinity force
Brutalizer is a pretty good item. I tried out doing the youmuus later on from a brutalizer, but it is more of a bruiser item -- you need time to sit there and auto attack to get the most from the armor pen / the attack speed steroid. Shaco unfortunately doesn't really have the time to sit in a team fight and tank since he will die relatively quickly. Its too offensive without enough defense to build into later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanDeages View Post
Phreak has evolved to shoutcaster.

Also, OP, how do you deal with tanky teams?
Tanky teams need to be handled earlier. If they get a good foothold on you too early, the only real way you can contribute a lot to your team is by doing the dragons/barons either by timing them and locking them down or by stealing them ( I am very good at stealing barons as mentioned earlier xD). Otherwise, try to keep them shut down and make your teammates stronger than them. If things spiral too hard your best bet is to split push and try to divert the attention of someone on their team that will do more damage in a teamfight than you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauJustice View Post
So you mentioned how you alert yourself, but how do you typically handle invades?

Do you transition Blue -> Their red, or do you go straight for their red?
If they have an amazing level 1 team comp I will typically start blue. If they invade my blue even after I make this assumption I can run to red before getting caught (scout at river near top/bot lane and jack in box near the bushes at mid) then have my teammates help me get a smiteless pull on my buff. Worst comes to worst I might have to use my smite on the 1 buff and have a little gimped jungle for the first few minutes. It doesn't kill me that hard, since you can usually invade their buff that they are doing 3rd (your buff 1st, then their 2nd buff than their last buff). It works out to not but such a problem as long as no one on your team gives first blood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shac˘ Bot View Post
I have a question on the on-hit build that I use.

Wits End, Madreds, Sunfire (think of it as an extra 40 dps without having to auto, good as another wits end for me), Wrigs -> BT (you need sustain), Mobs and GA.

This makes any tanky dps you're against look like a joke and if their adc isn't super fed you'll cut through them without dying too fast.

Most importantly the build is actually pretty cheap on start up, since once you get wits end you become strong enough to fight and it only gets better from there. Also hyper speed baron/dragons.


Get back to me with your opinions.
I do like wits end on shaco a lot -- but I really only pull it out when they have a AP heavy team (caster top + mid, and possible the jungle too). Additionally I will pick up the Hex drinker first and foremost (soooo good). The madreds blood razor is decent on shaco and allows you to get super fast baron but it is SOOO Expensive and usually building 2 smaller things (lets say Hex Drinker/Aegis + Phage or Wits) provides you with more damage. As I've mentioned earlier you DO NOT want to force yourself to have to sit in a team fight and auto attack over and over for long durations because you are NOT naturally tanky nor does your skill set support it.


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bizoiador

Junior Member

10-09-2012

considerations about ignite/exhaust?


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MadKingThorn

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizoiador View Post
considerations about ignite/exhaust?
Exhaust 100% ignite 0%. That exhaust is so freaking good in team fights, and in ganks, and in skirmishes, and in everything. Ghost is my next runner up -- I love it for that nice speed and quick cool down but exhaust is just so damn good at shutting down a damage dealer for a few seconds.


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MadKingThorn

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Anymore questions =)?


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xXInfiniteKidXx

Junior Member

10-10-2012

Do you ever get gold per 10 items if you feel your a bit behind in gold?
I have this tendency to always buy gp10s no matter who i jungle.